Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 16

Thread: Would you choose self regulation?

  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Richmond, Va, USA
    Posts
    170

    Default Would you choose self regulation?

    It has been my feeling since being in this business, that I would rather be the one making the rules for my business (or at least part of a group that determines the rules) than to be regulated by a someone in a bureaucracy that thinks they know what's best. As a business person, I'd rather try to have some influence in crafting the laws under which I operate.

    I look at the set of rules for my state and there's probably some tweaking needed, but overall, they seem to keep standards up for passengers for hire by contract. However, there are clear penalties that are not being enforced for non-compliance/illegal ops.

    Do we continue to rely on the non enforcing DMV, or do we initiate a passenger for hire "Commission"?

    Some backround here - there is a MVDB (Motor Vehicle Dealer Board) made up of dealers that tweak their rules regularly as needed to give the Board the authority to deal with illegal activities affecting their industry from both internal and external sources. They also provide a recourse for connsumer scams with a fund. All of the salesmen hold a license and pay for it, all of the dealerships pay a licensing fee also.
    Recently, the legislature created a "Towing and Recovery Board" for the towing industry. They tend to "overcharge" the insurance companies for cleaning up accidents (according to the insurance lobbyist), "overcharge" consumers when it comes to storage fees, as well various other ways of doing business that are close to criminal, but are accepted. The industry got tired of the reputation and decided to get together and form this Board responsible for rule making and compliance. They took the MVDB template and tweaked it to their requirements. And they'll be tweaking for years....
    One of those "be careful what you ask for" moments maybe?

    Now in my wildest dreams, I cannot imagine the limousine industry being compared to the shysters in the car or towing business <sarcasm meter just BROKE>

    Both of these industries, like ours, are regulated on a statewide basis.

    Pisses me off too, because in our industry as with those, the few bad ones make the rest look guilty also. Hell of a way to try to earn a living. Even harder to ever gain respect as a success.

    Either way - a self regulating contract passenger carrier board or the current regulatory environment - there are a select few at the top holding the meetings and applying the remedies. It could be said they resemble a cartel.
    Is it even possible in anyone's mind that a self refulatory group could do a better job than a bureaucracy?

    Props to Dr MLK, "I have a dream"
    but the implementation will resemble a nightmare.

    I'd really like to hear serious replies as this is an issue that I think could bring our priorities to a higher level to be resolved.

  2. #2

    Talking Regulation

    Dr G., I will respond in detail to your query sometime in the next few days. I need you to understand something about Florida and certain other parts of the SOUTH that you Northern Boys don' t know. The corruption, inbreeding, and general stupidity exceed anything you would ever see in Stalin's Russia. Our attitudes are shaped accordingly.....



    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Gelakeiwicz View Post
    It has been my feeling since being in this business, that I would rather be the one making the rules for my business (or at least part of a group that determines the rules) than to be regulated by a someone in a bureaucracy that thinks they know what's best. As a business person, I'd rather try to have some influence in crafting the laws under which I operate.

    I look at the set of rules for my state and there's probably some tweaking needed, but overall, they seem to keep standards up for passengers for hire by contract. However, there are clear penalties that are not being enforced for non-compliance/illegal ops.

    Do we continue to rely on the non enforcing DMV, or do we initiate a passenger for hire "Commission"?

    Some backround here - there is a MVDB (Motor Vehicle Dealer Board) made up of dealers that tweak their rules regularly as needed to give the Board the authority to deal with illegal activities affecting their industry from both internal and external sources. They also provide a recourse for connsumer scams with a fund. All of the salesmen hold a license and pay for it, all of the dealerships pay a licensing fee also.
    Recently, the legislature created a "Towing and Recovery Board" for the towing industry. They tend to "overcharge" the insurance companies for cleaning up accidents (according to the insurance lobbyist), "overcharge" consumers when it comes to storage fees, as well various other ways of doing business that are close to criminal, but are accepted. The industry got tired of the reputation and decided to get together and form this Board responsible for rule making and compliance. They took the MVDB template and tweaked it to their requirements. And they'll be tweaking for years....
    One of those "be careful what you ask for" moments maybe?

    Now in my wildest dreams, I cannot imagine the limousine industry being compared to the shysters in the car or towing business <sarcasm meter just BROKE>

    Both of these industries, like ours, are regulated on a statewide basis.

    Pisses me off too, because in our industry as with those, the few bad ones make the rest look guilty also. Hell of a way to try to earn a living. Even harder to ever gain respect as a success.

    Either way - a self regulating contract passenger carrier board or the current regulatory environment - there are a select few at the top holding the meetings and applying the remedies. It could be said they resemble a cartel.
    Is it even possible in anyone's mind that a self refulatory group could do a better job than a bureaucracy?

    Props to Dr MLK, "I have a dream"
    but the implementation will resemble a nightmare.

    I'd really like to hear serious replies as this is an issue that I think could bring our priorities to a higher level to be resolved.
    Dean Schuler

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Richmond, Va, USA
    Posts
    170

    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by Dean Schuler View Post
    Dr G., I will respond in detail to your query sometime in the next few days. I need you to understand something about Florida and certain other parts of the SOUTH that you Northern Boys don' t know. The corruption, inbreeding, and general stupidity exceed anything you would ever see in Stalin's Russia. Our attitudes are shaped accordingly.....

    Thanks Deano - I think it's known as politics around here

  4. #4

    Smile Answer

    Still don't get IT-do you Yankee ?!! Most of you Northern Folks are serially challenged on the rest of the country. Here's your answer to the other question. I use to love California's system when the state had money: State Regulation and multiple shops around the state where the regulators could pounce on the criminals. Now I am for a FEDERAL SYSTEM only-no more state or county or city regulation. As my German Grandmother used to say DUMBKOFFS !!!!!!!






    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Gelakeiwicz View Post
    Thanks Deano - I think it's known as politics around here
    Dean Schuler

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Richmond, Va, USA
    Posts
    170

    Default

    >Still don't get IT-do you Yankee ?!!

    dayumb - now even you are calling names!
    Yankees are from ABOVE the mason dixon line - MD/DE line. I'm born south of there, and moved further south later. I'll show ya my neck next time I see ya.
    ;-)


    >Most of you Northern Folks are serially challenged on the rest of the country. Here's your answer to the other question. I use to love California's system when the state had money: State Regulation and multiple shops around the state where the regulators could pounce on the criminals. Now I am for a FEDERAL SYSTEM only-no more state or county or city regulation. As my German Grandmother used to say DUMBKOFFS !!!!!!!

    It's whether the regulator deems us a priority. the Feds always do.
    Back to the original question ... and a few more

    what fees would you pay to ensure a level playing field and safety ?
    Per company?
    per vehicle?
    should the chauffeur contribute to the fund via licensing fee?

    It's about user fees when it comes to transportation from what I've seen. So assuming there is regulatory oversight wouldn't there be fees? And would you rather pay fees to an agency that prooduces or one that is run by the guvmint? How much extra would the industry pay than they are now for this system?

    And for those of focused on the bottom line
    How much more legitimate profitable business could you do in your market with the elimination of illegal competition. Would that pay the difference in fees?

  6. #6
    Super Moderator gunny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Tampa Bay
    Posts
    5,325

    Default Meet Federal Guidelines

    Regulations must cover all these points with nothing regarding economic protectionism:

    (a) In General.— To ensure the development, coordination, and preservation of a transportation system that meets the transportation needs of the United States, including the United States Postal Service and national defense, it is the policy of the United States Government to oversee the modes of transportation and—
    (1) in overseeing those modes—
    (A) to recognize and preserve the inherent advantage of each mode of transportation;
    (B) to promote safe, adequate, economical, and efficient transportation;
    (C) to encourage sound economic conditions in transportation, including sound economic conditions among carriers;
    (D) to encourage the establishment and maintenance of reasonable rates for transportation, without unreasonable discrimination or unfair or destructive competitive practices;
    (E) to cooperate with each State and the officials of each State on transportation matters; and
    (F) to encourage fair wages and working conditions in the transportation industry;
    (2) in overseeing transportation by motor carrier, to promote competitive and efficient transportation services in order to—
    (A) encourage fair competition, and reasonable rates for transportation by motor carriers of property;
    (B) promote efficiency in the motor carrier transportation system and to require fair and expeditious decisions when required;
    (C) meet the needs of shippers, receivers, passengers, and consumers;
    (D) allow a variety of quality and price options to meet changing market demands and the diverse requirements of the shipping and traveling public;
    (E) allow the most productive use of equipment and energy resources;
    (F) enable efficient and well-managed carriers to earn adequate profits, attract capital, and maintain fair wages and working conditions;
    (G) provide and maintain service to small communities and small shippers and intrastate bus services;
    (H) provide and maintain commuter bus operations;
    (I) improve and maintain a sound, safe, and competitive privately owned motor carrier system;
    (J) promote greater participation by minorities in the motor carrier system;
    (K) promote intermodal transportation;
    (3) in overseeing transportation by motor carrier of passengers—
    (A) to cooperate with the States on transportation matters for the purpose of encouraging the States to exercise intrastate regulatory jurisdiction in accordance with the objectives of this part;
    (B) to provide Federal procedures which ensure that intrastate regulation is exercised in accordance with this part; and
    (C) to ensure that Federal reform initiatives enacted by section 31138 and the Bus Regulatory Reform Act of 1982 are not nullified by State regulatory actions; and
    (4) in overseeing transportation by water carrier, to encourage and promote service and price competition in the noncontiguous domestic trade.
    (b) Administration To Carry Out Policy.— This part shall be administered and enforced to carry out the policy of this section and to promote the public interest.
    Airport Limo Service Spring Hill, Brooksville, Citrus County FL
    http://gunnysairportlimo.com/tampa_a...ce_spring_hill

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Richmond, Va, USA
    Posts
    170

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gunny View Post
    Regulations must cover all these points with nothing regarding economic protectionism:

    (a) In General.— To ensure the development, coordination, and preservation of a transportation system that meets the transportation needs of the United States, including the United States Postal Service and national defense, it is the policy of the United States Government to oversee the modes of transportation and—
    (1) in overseeing those modes—

    (C) to encourage sound economic conditions in transportation, including sound economic conditions among carriers;

    <they will determine MY economic soundness?!>


    (D) to encourage the establishment and maintenance of reasonable rates for transportation, without unreasonable discrimination or unfair or destructive competitive practices;

    <no thanks, I'll set my own rates >

    ( (2) in overseeing transportation by motor carrier, to promote competitive and efficient transportation services in order to—
    (A) encourage fair competition, and reasonable rates for transportation by motor carriers of property;

    <there's that pesky rate setting thing again>

    (D) allow a variety of quality and price options to meet changing market demands and the diverse requirements of the shipping and traveling public;

    <NO MORE RATE SETTINGS!!!>

    (F) enable efficient and well-managed carriers to earn adequate profits, attract capital, and maintain fair wages and working conditions;
    (G) provide and maintain service to small communities and small shippers and intrastate bus services;

    <EUREKA - there's a definition that is easily modified to fit my business>

    ( (3) in overseeing transportation by motor carrier of passengers—
    (A) to cooperate with the States on transportation matters for the purpose of encouraging the States to exercise intrastate regulatory jurisdiction in accordance with the objectives of this part;

    < so here is where you defer to a State system >

    (B) to provide Federal procedures which ensure that intrastate regulation is exercised in accordance with this part; and
    (C) to ensure that Federal reform initiatives enacted by section 31138 and the Bus Regulatory Reform Act of 1982 are not nullified by State regulatory actions; and
    (4) in overseeing transportation by water carrier, to encourage and promote service and price competition in the noncontiguous domestic trade.

    < MORE PRICING MENTIONS ARGGGGGHH>

    (b) Administration To Carry Out Policy.— This part shall be administered and enforced to carry out the policy of this section and to promote the public interest.
    Seems very focused on setting pricing - sorry not interested in that. That should be for public common carriers. Although, I tend to agree with Fed requirements for insurance limits.

    It does defer back to the states for intrastate regs, so....

  8. #8
    Super Moderator gunny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Tampa Bay
    Posts
    5,325

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Gelakeiwicz View Post
    Seems very focused on setting pricing - sorry not interested in that. That should be for public common carriers. Although, I tend to agree with Fed requirements for insurance limits.

    It does defer back to the states for intrastate regs, so....
    Forgot to throw in that this is federal law 49 13101 USC

    Therefore any state transportation law which runs against the grain could eventually come under challenge as feds increase occupation of intrastate transportation. Especially transportation that is deemed to be within the stream of interstate commerce.
    Airport Limo Service Spring Hill, Brooksville, Citrus County FL
    http://gunnysairportlimo.com/tampa_a...ce_spring_hill

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Richmond, Va, USA
    Posts
    170

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gunny View Post
    Forgot to throw in that this is federal law 49 13101 USC

    Therefore any state transportation law which runs against the grain could eventually come under challenge as feds increase occupation of intrastate transportation. Especially transportation that is deemed to be within the stream of interstate commerce.
    Referencing the other thread -LCT blog- this is where I get the impression that you think Fed law is enough.

    Is there no one else on this forum with a response?

  10. #10
    Super Moderator gunny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Tampa Bay
    Posts
    5,325

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Gelakeiwicz View Post
    Referencing the other thread -LCT blog- this is where I get the impression that you think Fed law is enough.

    Is there no one else on this forum with a response?
    Enforcement of State DOT regulatory rules enacted in accordance with mandates set forth under federal law including federal safety regs should be sufficient for the passenger motor carrier industry & will help insure uniformity throughout the states.
    Airport Limo Service Spring Hill, Brooksville, Citrus County FL
    http://gunnysairportlimo.com/tampa_a...ce_spring_hill

  11. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Richmond, Va, USA
    Posts
    170

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gunny View Post
    Enforcement of State DOT regulatory rules enacted in accordance with mandates set forth under federal law including federal safety regs should be sufficient for the passenger motor carrier industry & will help insure uniformity throughout the states.
    AHA!
    That word "enforcement" in conjunction with the words "state" and "regs" .
    That's the same thing I've been saying, but I guess it did not come across.

    When you have enforcement of a state reg, how does that involve the Feds? It involves some state agency - so you have "state regulation".

    I ~get your point of uniformity, and agree with minimal regs. It's always the enforcement thing that becomes the issue, as again, limo ops are not even on the radar screen for most enforcement agencies tasked.

  12. #12
    Super Moderator gunny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Tampa Bay
    Posts
    5,325

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Gelakeiwicz View Post
    AHA!
    That word "enforcement" in conjunction with the words "state" and "regs" .
    That's the same thing I've been saying, but I guess it did not come across.

    When you have enforcement of a state reg, how does that involve the Feds? It involves some state agency - so you have "state regulation".

    I ~get your point of uniformity, and agree with minimal regs. It's always the enforcement thing that becomes the issue, as again, limo ops are not even on the radar screen for most enforcement agencies tasked.
    State DOT's primarily enforce regs found under the Code of Federal Regulations (CFR). In Florida, nonpublic sector buses (10pax+) are regulated by FDOT. Instead of the state spelling out every safety issue the law simply refers to various CFR's. It is up to FDOT to actually adopt the rules & provide enforcement.

    Could such be applied to limo ops? Absolutely by simply defining every vehicle as a nonpublic sector bus regardless of capacity.
    Airport Limo Service Spring Hill, Brooksville, Citrus County FL
    http://gunnysairportlimo.com/tampa_a...ce_spring_hill

  13. #13
    Super Moderator gunny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Tampa Bay
    Posts
    5,325

    Default No To Self-Regulation

    Business Self-Regulation is defined as: he/she with the deepest pockets makes the rules.

    Enough Said!
    Airport Limo Service Spring Hill, Brooksville, Citrus County FL
    http://gunnysairportlimo.com/tampa_a...ce_spring_hill

  14. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Richmond, Va, USA
    Posts
    170

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gunny View Post
    Business Self-Regulation is defined as: he/she with the deepest pockets makes the rules.

    Enough Said!

    If the above is true, then it makes sense that government makes the rules. You OK with that?
    I'm certainly not, and feel that they need to have people involved in the actual businesses that they regulate having a hand in the rulemaking.

    If you don't have anything to add, and you obviously don't to this particvular thread, you ought to STFU

  15. #15
    Super Moderator gunny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Tampa Bay
    Posts
    5,325

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Gelakeiwicz View Post
    If the above is true, then it makes sense that government makes the rules. You OK with that?
    I'm certainly not, and feel that they need to have people involved in the actual businesses that they regulate having a hand in the rulemaking.

    If you don't have anything to add, and you obviously don't to this particvular thread, you ought to STFU
    Don't like the farking answer, don't ask the farking question.
    Airport Limo Service Spring Hill, Brooksville, Citrus County FL
    http://gunnysairportlimo.com/tampa_a...ce_spring_hill

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •