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Thread: Dangers of overloading your vehicle

  1. #1
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    I just read an article in Transportation Leader, the offical publication of the TLPA By Neil Weiss reguarding overloading Limousines. As any one who has been in the Limo business for any length of time knows, it is all about GVW Gross vehicle weight. I have had to turn down runs just because clients wanted to stuff 10 people into my 8 passenger Limousine. Beleive me with the volume of calls I get, that is a tough call to make. In reading the article, I am not here to criticize Mr. Weiss, I just think he should had gon on a little further. How about the Navigator who some people like to stretch out as long as a Bowling alley and try to stuff 16 to 18 people in it. Fords own specification states that the Pay load capacity of the Navigator with 4 wheel drive is 1456 lbs with 2 wheel drive 1540. The stretch alone exceeds this, then you stuff in 16 people at 150# each for another 2400 lbs. add to that the curb weight of nearly 6000#, it's a wonder you can steer it, let alone stop it.
    You have over 10,000 # on a vehicle designed for a gross of 7500. No wonder NYC has banned them from their streets.

    It is just my opinion but what ever happened to the good old days when a Limousine was a Limousine and not a an overloaded off road vehicle. I think it's time we as an industry try to restore a little dignity to a Limousine. I support the Cadillac and the Town Car and the QVM/CMC programs.

    David E. Merrill

  2. #2
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    Neil can be reached at imc1@comcast.net . Contact him. You will get the truth and the history of QVM from the WIZARD Maury Sutton, Limousine Digest Editorial Consultant at csutton@ucla.edu. Mr. Sutton was the LCT publisher from 1986-1989 and is " THE MAN " in the Chauffeured Transport Trade !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Dean Schuler

  3. #3
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    I'm with you David.
    John B

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    a 120" Limo.I`m with you on this one,you should be up here in Toronto-you would not beleive the amount of Companies who advertise they have 10 passenger cars.Transport Canada won`t allow any thing over 120" or 130" for Caddy.I turn away loads of business because I won`t overload my cars,someday,God forbid, there will be one helluva accident then the S*** will hit the fan.I will NOT jeopordize my customers safety or comfort or my Business for that matter for the sake of making an extra $100.00. by squeezing in 2 other bodies.I know of guys who`ve had to replace rear ends and transmissions because they overload.NOT WORTH IT.
    Can we get this article on the `net or can you post it David?

  5. #5
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    Just found the publication on the `net but it is a bit out of date,I wonder if they would post the article on Limos.com for us.

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    ...It seems to me from replys I have gotten on other post reguarding over stretched and overloaded SUVs, that a lot feel the QVM/CMC programs are plots by GM and Ford to limit the number of vehicles used in the Coach building industry. Having worked in Durabilty Test for 5 years, I don't think this is the case. Building a base vehicle is a process, every part you install on a vehicle affects another part some where along the line. I watched the Cadillac K special platform evolve into what it is today. When cadillac got back into the Limo business, it was limited because it did not have a brake system to handle the load. Between the platform group and the Delphi Group, that problem was solved.

    I am sure that if USDOT banned the overloaded Limos, the Automotive industry would find a way to build a base vehicle up to the job. The new QVM Excursion and now Navigator are an example of what the Industry can do. Why take the chance on a non QVM vehicle, with the shape some of the Coach builders are in, they probably won't help you a lot. The pockets are a lot deeper when you follow the rules.

    David E. Merrill

  7. #7
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    My policy, 8 adults max. If you need more room, I have another 120 you can reserve along with the first one

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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hardryv:
    My policy, 8 adults max. If you need more room, I have another 120 you can reserve along with the first one<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    You can still be overloaded with just those eight.

    Karl Jones

  9. #9
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Karl:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hardryv:
    My policy, 8 adults max. If you need more room, I have another 120 you can reserve along with the first one<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    You can still be overloaded with just those eight.

    Karl Jones
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    Im not talkin 8 semo wrestlers here. 8 average size adult in the 150 to 200 lb range. I dont think thats to heavy for around town but I cant see it on a long trip

  10. #10
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    To transport 8 sumo with your 120 you would have to strap 3 to the roof.

    Oh, and making out that a vehicle will break apart into small pieces just because it's 1 pound over its rated GVW is silly. The rated GVW of a vehicle is roughly half to a third as much as what the engineers believe any damage would occur, not catastrophic damage.

    Don't think so? Do you honestly hope to make me believe Ford has told Transport Canada (or other equivalent bodies), "Hey, our vehicle can gross 6500lbs, but if y'all put it up to 7000lbs, the whole thing becomes a death trap, killing and maiming anyone who comes near."

    Or is it more likely...
    "Hey, our vehicle can gross 6500lbs, but if you put it up to 7000lbs, it'll be just fine, but our legal department won't let us guarantee that."

    If coachbuilders didn't want us to think of a 120 as a ten seater, they would do away with the j-seat, which only allows overloading, it is less comfortable for the passengers than a 3 seat.



    ps. My 160 Nav steers and stops just fine thank you. Probably better with 12 than your 120 with 8.

  11. #11
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    Here's a question I posed to our U.K. transport Dept. Which scenario is illegal ?
    1/ Limo with 8- 25 stone wrestlers in.
    2/ Limo with 10- 8 stone ladies in.
    3/ Limo with 12- 5 stone kids in.

    The answer was (because the law says 8 pax only)
    the only legal answer was number 1, 2 and 3 are illegal. No comment on weight ( I only carry 8 but there sure is a problem here)

    How about that ?

    Comments ?

  12. #12
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> ps. My 160 Nav steers and stops just fine thank you. Probably better with 12 than your 120 with 8. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I could not AGREE with you more. Mr. Merrill and i have discussed this on a previous post and I am all for the larger limos. i currently own five and just took delivery of my 200" 2003 Hummer H2!! I can sum it up in one word I N C R E D I B L E!!! Let me tell you these SUV's were the best thing to happen to the limo industry. I do however believe that anything over 200" is too much. I myself modify everything from brake pads, brake discs, pwr steering pumps, tires and rims that were on the original vehicle to heavy duty. The construction I believe is better than QVM or CMC and on my Escalade and Hummer I had two manual escape hatches installed on the roof.

    These vehicles are in HIGH demand and Dave from LA Limos can confirm that because he has them and knows how much revenue the SUV's can make. So you boys with the 120's keep turning down the work David and I will continue reaping in the $$$$.

    HARPO

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    Yea-but for how long? It`s a fad thats gonna dissappear like the Hula Hoop-here today,gone tomorrow.I`ll bet most of your customers are college kids who like to get pissed and hang out the windows showing off!I cater to my customers not to whats in style today,thats why I`ve been around for 20 years.If thats the kind of business you`re after,Good Luck,not for me.

  14. #14
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    > It`s a fad thats gonna dissappear like the
    > Hula Hoop-here today,gone tomorrow.
    I bet if we had a forum back when the first 100" stretch appeared we would have heard someone say the same thing. "Why would anyone need a car for more than 6 passengers, it's just crazy!!" Try and keep an open mind and investigate things, things change in this world even though we do not want them to!


    > I`ll bet most of your customers are college kids who like
    > to get pissed and hang out the windows showing off!
    I also had this same mind set before the company I work for started buying SUV's. In fact our boss had a hard time convincing us to even drive them. Even after almost doubling our hourly rate us drivers would still say the same things:

    "All we are going to get is a bunch of prom kids renting them, 8 is bad enough in a 120" 16 in a navigator is going to be hell!!"

    "We aint going to drive around 16 drunks and then have to clean up 32 glasses after them."

    " No bride is going to rent a truck for thier wedding"

    Well the truth is I have seen it at my company is that the same people who rent your 120" on a regular basis have no problem stepping up to an suv when they need it. This December during christmas party season our SUV's were going every day taking bosses and thier employees out for a lunch or a dinner. Before these business would have considered a limo as a nice treat for thier employees but when you add in the spouses now you are talking about 2 limos and many figured "if we all cannot be together then whats the point". Of course in the past my boss would always offer a limo bus for the larger groups but rarely would anyone take him up on it.

    The biggest surprise for me was the wedding business we have gotten with the SUV's. I would have never thought a bride would want to climb up into a SUV in a wedding dress. But the truth is that it is much easier to get in and out of SUV's parked against a curb than it is a town car. And logistics wise they are much smarter. It used to take some planning to decide who rode in the limo and who drove thier own car to the ceremony, now it's a no brainer, everyone rides, there is plenty of room!

    And just because there is a new class of vehicle does not mean there will be a new class of customer. College students who like to get pissed could not afford a limo before and because there are SUV's does not mean they can afford it now. They spend all thier money getting pissed anyway ;-)


    > I cater to my customers not to whats in style today
    Are you sure you are catering to your customers? The logic of "I am not doing any SUV jobs so thier must not be any demand for SUV's" is not good logic to follow. I do not know what your customer service set up is, weather or not you answer all the phone inquiries to your business. But those of you with reservationists, do you know how many inquiries you get for 8+ passenger travel? How many jobs are you turning away? Are you sending your regular customers off to look for the transportation they need to your competition?

    Some of you guys with large operations can get a little insulated from your customers needs and desires. The story I like is of a CEO being interviewed about his business:

    Reporter: What about customer service do you have many complaints?

    CEO: Up until about 4 years ago we had a real problem with complaints, every other call I answered was a complaint about our products.

    Reporter: How did you turn that around, what was your solution?



    CEO: I stopped answering the phone. We have people who do that now.

    Later!!

    Steve Walker
    Azusa, CA
    steve@capriceshop.com
    http://www.capriceshop.com

  15. #15
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    You may be right Steve....here`s my LAST statement on the subject: COLLINS ENGLISH DICTIONARY...
    LIMO'OUSINE{zen} n.Large Luxurious car.
    Did not see anything about large luxurious trucks or Hummers.
    THE END.
    On another note,my condolences to our American neighbours on the Columbia tragedy.

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