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Thread: Commander & Thief!!!!!

  1. #31
    Super Moderator gunny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick E. View Post
    You are mixing up a few different things. When you state there is no obligation to keep the unio members employed, you are in the right neighborhood but on the wrong street. I was specifically talking about the health, drug, and other benefits promised to those that have retired. For the record, there will be less employees on the line as there will be less factories and less capacity (but that is not this discussion).

    The salient point was that you, as well as your gov't cilvilian counterpart employees received all that you were promised when you retired, and rightfully so. But, when others have worked for 20, 30, or 40 years in crappy jobs for the promise of certain lifetime health, drug, and other benefits you have no problem with them being stripped of their benefits. And that is what I say reeks of hypocrisy. You have yours so who cares if they get theirs. That is exactly how it appears.

    The US Taxpayer as our employer knows & accepts that they pick up the tab for military & all government retiree's who the US population reaps the benefits of services provided or do you really believe your guarantees of free speech, security & pursuit of happiness are simply obtained by being lucky enough to be ejected from the womb on US soil .

    The US Taxpayer does not accept their dollars supporting private industry & in this country the consumer determines who wins, who loses, who keeps their benefits & who doesn't.

    The car makers have an obligation to their employee's (past & present) NOT me nor any other taxpayer. If they made promises they can not keep, that's between the Industry & their employees & not between the employees & the US Taxpayer.
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  2. #32
    Senior Member Cedar Mill Limousine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick E. View Post
    You are mixing up a few different things. When you state there is no obligation to keep the unio members employed, you are in the right neighborhood but on the wrong street. I was specifically talking about the health, drug, and other benefits promised to those that have retired. For the record, there will be less employees on the line as there will be less factories and less capacity (but that is not this discussion).

    The salient point was that you, as well as your gov't cilvilian counterpart employees received all that you were promised when you retired, and rightfully so. But, when others have worked for 20, 30, or 40 years in crappy jobs for the promise of certain lifetime health, drug, and other benefits you have no problem with them being stripped of their benefits. And that is what I say reeks of hypocrisy. You have yours so who cares if they get theirs. That is exactly how it appears.
    Point is-be smart who you choose to work for-dying company that has been going broke for years or #1 country in the world?
    Rich Rottier
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  3. #33

    Default it's extortion not negotiation

    The unions have strong armed and threatened american companies for far too long. It is time to take back America.

    How is it that these same companies that can't make it here are doing well in other parts of the world ? Can you say UAW ?

    It is time for the government and the unions to get out of business and let the spirit of the American dreamer get back to creating( rebuilding) the greatest place on earth.

  4. #34
    Senior Member Wade Randolph's Avatar
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    Hey Rick where does it stop? My friend lost his entire retirement when the company he worked for went bellyup. Now he is working again at 70 years old to survive. Are the taxpayers responsible?

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by BirmLimo - Michael Birmingham View Post
    The unions have strong armed and threatened american companies for far too long. It is time to take back America.

    How is it that these same companies that can't make it here are doing well in other parts of the world ? Can you say UAW ?

    It is time for the government and the unions to get out of business and let the spirit of the American dreamer get back to creating( rebuilding) the greatest place on earth.

    You do realize that the number one selling nameplate in the world is Toyota? Toyota announced that for the first time in their 70 year history they are now bleeding red ink. Yes, the company that you want GM, Ford, and Chrsyler to follow is deep into red ink.

    Of course you realize that Toyota builds here and in Japan and in neither country do they have UAW employees. In non-American markets, Toyota doesn't even have to pay for the health care of their employees (since it's government sponsored). Perhaps, just perhaps, the price of labor isn't the most important thing on the table right now.

    An interesting comment was made the other night by an economist (I didn't catch his name as I was driving at the time.) He believes that in order for America to come back to fiscal health the workers will need to get raises. Yes, you heard that right. Employees of the lower and middle brackets will need to earn more. His theory is that when the wealthy earn more they don't actually spend more. But, when there is a steady increase in the income of lower and middle class workers they are able to spend more and drive the economy.
    Last edited by Rick E.; December 22nd, 2008 at 07:40 PM. Reason: typo

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wade Randolph View Post
    Hey Rick where does it stop? My friend lost his entire retirement when the company he worked for went bellyup. Now he is working again at 70 years old to survive. Are the taxpayers responsible?

    Wade, your friend should be damn glad that President Bush didn't have his way in abolishing Social Security in favor of Wall Street retirement accounts. If he had, then your friend really would have nothing!

    But something doesn't sound correct. Just like the FDIC insures savings bank, there is a program (who's name escapes me) that insures pension funds. If your friend's company did pay into a pension fund then those funds are guaranteed. Our techs in the Service Department are union (as they are at most dealerships) and their pensions are watchdoged and insured.

    Where does what stop though Wade? You seem not to believe every economist that predicted that without providing the automakers with bridge loans the unemployment numbers would be so high that we'd be entering a depression instead of a recession.

    Certainly, you can't be upset with President Bush for doing the right thing in attempting to stave off mass unemployment and a depression by providing a bridge loan to the auto industry?

    The double standard would be hysterical if it wasn't so serious. How is it possible that the banking and financial industry was given a bailout with no Congressional oversight or hearings. Nobody did anything except provide the Wall Street firms, banks, and AIG with billions. Yet, the auto makers (who are suffering due to the failure of the banking industry to loan money to industry, consumers, or other banks) got raked over the coals, ridiculed by Congress, and have a payback timetable and the establishment of benchmarks when they needed to borrow a fraction of what the others received as a bailout?

    I know politics never plays a role in anything.

    I know politics never would never enter the picture when it comes to saving the country from entering a depression.

    I most certainly know that the Republicans would never dick with giving bridge loans to the auto industry when (1) they could attempt to break the UAW, a union that never supported the Republican Party and (2) they (ie. Shelby) gave tax abatements, free highways to factories, and incentives to lure non-American (non-union) auto factories to their states.

    It's quite ironic when Sen. Shelby stands up and says it's not the place of government to help private industry (specifically the Big 3) when he has invested government (taxpayer) dollars in foreign auto manufacturing! Talk about a conflict of interest....
    Last edited by Rick E.; December 22nd, 2008 at 07:45 PM.

  7. #37
    Super Moderator gunny's Avatar
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    Default Someone's Going Down

    And that's the inconvenient truth regardless of how much our Socialist Comrades in D.C. pump into these overbloated Dinosaurs.

    Long live the United Socialist States of Amerika!
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  8. #38
    Senior Member Wade Randolph's Avatar
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    Hey Rick my friends retirement funds were in an IRA invested in a public company so there was no guarantee. He made the mistake of believing that this was a local public company and invested all his retirement dollars in this company because it was local. Just like the workers at GM believed they were safe. Rick yes politics is played on both sides. And belive it or not I was for a LOAN to the US Auto industry. I see the glass as half full and still think Americans can build a better car! I know you Bush haters cannot fathom this but unlike you I hope and pray our new President does a great job. I love my country too much not too! I did not vote for him but the election is over and I am behind him 100% and would like to see him become a huge success for the sake of this great nation. I also do not totally blame the UAW for the auto mess. The guys making the decisions are the ones responsible certainly not the workers! Also just for the record stop with the social security lies. Nobody wanted to elimimate it they wanted to allow us to put UP to 5% of the funds in an account of our choosing and we know you libs hate citizens to have choices except when it comes to killing babies.
    Last edited by Wade Randolph; December 22nd, 2008 at 09:40 PM.

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