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Thread: Commander & Thief!!!!!

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    Senior Member PhillyLimoGuy's Avatar
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    Default Commander & Thief!!!!!

    We are screwed people!!! President should not get involved with a volatile issue like this so close to his bow out of office!

    Looks like Kick-backs are coming to the "Bush Get Rich Foundation", while the tax payers get stuck with the bill.
    Bush announces auto rescue

    Government to loan GM and Chrysler $13.4 billion from Wall Street bailout fund so that the embattled auto firms don't run out of cash.

    By Chris Isidore, CNNMoney.com senior writer
    Last Updated: December 19, 2008: 9:01 AM ET
    NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- President Bush announced a rescue plan for General Motors and Chrysler LLC Friday morning that will make $13.4 billion in federal loans available almost immediately.
    A senior administration official briefing reporters said he expects that GM (GM, Fortune 500) and Chrysler LLC will be signing the loan papers to access the cash later Friday morning.
    The money will come from the $700 billion fund set aside to bailout Wall Street firms and banks in October.
    With these loans, Treasury will have committed virtually all of the $350 billion of that fund that it can hand out without additional authorization from Congress. Once Congress releases the other $350 billion, the two automakers will be able to borrow an additional $4 billion.
    The loans are three-year loans but the money will have to be repaid immediately if the firms do not show themselves to be viable by March 31. It is expected that the companies will have to negotiate new agreements with unions and creditors in order to do so.
    The White House and Treasury Department signaled a week ago that they were willing to use cash from the bank bailout fund to help keep GM and Chrysler afloat after the Senate failed to vote for a $14 billion bailout for the two companies. The bill had already passed the House and had the support of the administration.
    GM (GM, Fortune 500) has warned it will fall below the minimum amount of cash it needs to continue to operate without $4 billion in federal loans before the end of the month. Privately held Chrysler said it will need $4 billion or it will also run out of cash early next year.
    Ford Motor (F, Fortune 500) has more cash on hand and has said it should be able to avoid tapping into federal dollars unless the weak auto sales continue longer than it expects in 2009.
    U.S. auto sales plunged to 26-year lows last month as tight credit, rising job losses and weak consumer confidence have led to a virtual collapse in the auto market.
    All of the major automakers, including Asian automakers Toyota Motor (TM) and Honda Motor (HMC), are cutting back production. But the situation is particularly severe at GM and Chrysler.
    In the last week, those two automakers announced shutdowns of assembly lines for at least a month, several weeks longer than the typical shutdowns during the December holiday season.
    Philadelphia Limousine Guy

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    Senior Member Greenpala's Avatar
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    In NYC - bicycle is still a hot item and a way to get around. Soon that is all we going to have left. JK. LOL.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhillyLimoGuy View Post
    We are screwed people!!! President should not get involved with a volatile issue like this so close to his bow out of office!

    Looks like Kick-backs are coming to the "Bush Get Rich Foundation", while the tax payers get stuck with the bill.
    Bush announces auto rescue

    [
    A bridge L-O-A-N.

    A bridge L-O-A-N that needs to be repaid in 90 days if certain conditions are not met.

    A bridge L-O-A-N that prevents millions of Americans from becoming unemployed and taking us from a recession to a depression.

    Please-show us where the kick-backs are that you allege? Please tell us why you think that a loan is a bailout. A few decades ago Chrysler went to the Feds and Lee Iococca begged for a bridge loan to keep Chrysler going. Chrysler got the loan and repaid the loan. Where is the precedent for a downside?

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    Senior Member PhillyLimoGuy's Avatar
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    Rick - I fully understand a Bridge Loan, and from your post I see that you do as well. What I don't approve of is Bush making a drastic push for the loan package right before the end of his presidency. This is only my opinion, and not fact, but it shows me that he is looking for "Personal Economic Stimulus" to come from those he bailed out the same way he is allowed pardoning power thru the constitution. This money is meant to give assistance to the financial institutions, not big business. Last time I checked, automobiles do not directly create financial stability until they are sold, and riden in. Banks move and create the funds that automakers live off of, they are the infrastructure of America. I don't prosper off of a car markers profits unless I have stock margains, or I named as one of their board members. But now, considering the bailout is going to put a bandaide on a very deep wound called Detroit, I as a tax payer should have a say in what is done considering my grandchildren will still be paying for Detroits lack of management skills.

    I am of the opinion that even though it is not going to happen, the gov't should have oveseen a strict "Chapter 11" bancruptcy implementation so that these mismanaged companies can renegotiate their contacts with vendors and the lovely UAW!
    Philadelphia Limousine Guy

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    Yea, a L-O-A-N, just like the millions of Americans who bought big houses with LOANS they couldn't afford ... don't worry, they took out a L-O-A-N right? Looks like those loans are yielding big returns now ... oops, I forget, most of them have defaulted and put us into this whirlwind of a mess. A loan is a loan when you have the wherewithal, credit, and ability to pay it back -- the big 3 hardly qualify -- making this L-O-A-N not a loan, but a bailout.

    If I loan someone money and they have $4M in assets and 700 credit score, its a loan. If I loan money to a panhandling bum on the street, its a bailout. Politicians don't know the difference and GM and their crap-box cars are the bum on the street.

    Of course, it is these kind of lending qualifications that got us into this mess to begin with ... LOANING PEOPLE/BUSINESSES WHO HAD NO DAMN BUSINESS BEING LENT MONEY. Obviously, this freaking country hasn't learned a damn thing.

    And if you're so confident in GM's great ability to receive loans and repay them, I suggest you liquidate all your assets, 401K's, etc, and drop it into a GM corporate bond.

    See if you get that back anytime soon.

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    Senior Member PhillyLimoGuy's Avatar
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    Good point Michael!

    Can I give you rep for that on your own website!!!
    Philadelphia Limousine Guy

  7. #7

    Default forcing americans to buy stock

    This is what is happening. We are being forced to buy stock in companies we would not have bought stock in under our own free will.

    How in 90 days will they be able to pay it back if they don't fix the problems ? This is the dumbest statement yet in regard to all this.

    "HERE YA' GO - HERE'S 14 BILLION TAX PAYER DOLLARS. IF YOU STILL CAN'T FIX YOUR PROBLEMS IN 90 DAYS , YOU HAVE TO GIVE IT BACK"

    Guess what , the reason they took the money is to spend it. If they have made no strides forward , how in the hell are they paying it back ? They can't afford the debt they have now.

    God Bless Amerika. We are now being told what light bulbs to buy , what tv's to watch , what stocks to buy , what banks we can use, where we are allowed to get medical care.

    Genius , pure genius.

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    Default Now For A Little Musical Interlude

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    Back in the USSA, yeah

    Been away so long I hardly knew the place
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    Leave it till tomorrow to unpack my case
    Honey disconnect the phone
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    Back in the US
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhillyLimoGuy View Post
    Good point Michael!

    Can I give you rep for that on your own website!!!
    You certainly may.

  10. #10
    Member Limo Padawan limosatyourservice's Avatar
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    I gave you rep points on that one too, very well said michael!
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  11. #11

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    Honestly I think the auto industry's unions suck. They pay way to much to their employees than their competitors. Guess what Chrysler is going to close some plants for a whole month but yet the employees get 100% pay as if they were working! Chrysler says they'll save some money on expenses! I literally laughed out loud when I heard that. Its a joke and the unions should never have been able to get away with this

    That said. They do need a loan or millions will be out of a job, however bad I want to see the unions get what they deserve and these companies not have to pay 100% of their freaking pay when they lay somebody off, if they don't get a loan our country will be much much worse off.

    The reason bush has to do it now is they cant wait a few months before obama gets in, or these companies will already be bankrupt.
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    Shouldnt we be for the loan to the big 3 I mean almost every limo vehicle is mad by the big 3. what would we use if they went under. I cant imagine all those people losing there jobs at once.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wflimonj View Post
    Shouldnt we be for the loan to the big 3 I mean almost every limo vehicle is mad by the big 3. what would we use if they went under. I cant imagine all those people losing there jobs at once.

    I made the same point some on a similar thread.

    I am surprised that Michael is willing to make money off the backs of Detroit's fruit - the Lincoln Town Car, as a sedan and stretch; the Cadillac DTS and Escalade as both a sedan and stretch; and the Chrysler 300 as both a sedan and stretch.

    Michael, how well do you do you think the public would accept being cheauffeur driven in Camry's and Honda Accords?

    Please remember the American Luxury Cheauffeured Transportation Industry is based upon American Luxury Cars.

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    Quote Originally Posted by [I
    I am of the opinion that even though it is not going to happen, the gov't should have oveseen a strict "Chapter 11" bancruptcy implementation so that these mismanaged companies can renegotiate their contacts with vendors and the lovely UAW![/I]

    One of the largest issues with your theory is that nobody..as in NOBODY would purchase a new vehicle from a company that did a BK. There is no way to know that a supply of replacement parts would exist or if the warranty would be honored.

    If one of the Big 3 went down it would most likely take at least one more of the Big 3 with them as well as more then just a handful of suppliers. Every economist has estimated that in such a situation there would be an additonal 2,000,000 - 3,000,000 unemployed since there is about a 10:1 ratio between direct employees an related employees. In short, your "solution" would bring on a depression.

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    Senior Member Cedar Mill Limousine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wflimonj View Post
    Shouldnt we be for the loan to the big 3 I mean almost every limo vehicle is mad by the big 3. what would we use if they went under. I cant imagine all those people losing there jobs at once.
    They wouldn't go under-they would file bankruptcy and reorganize-forcing the unions to renegotiate their wages and force the white collars to second guess their "bonuses". I have to do some research, but there was an Esquire article back in '05 or '06 where the writer said to buy stock in GM. It was something along the lines of the foreign car makers wouldn't let them go under because of reasons I forget. I don't think anyone would ever imagine the government would go to this extreme. I'll look for it.

    By the way, you want smart? Finally the fed got smart and cut rates again! If you are renting a house-now is the time to make the plunge!! Within the next 3 weeks 30 yr fixed mort. will be as low as 4.5%. THIS IS FREE MONEY PEOPLE!
    Rich Rottier
    219.808.0976 | richrottier@gmail.com

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