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Thread: Independant Contractors

  1. #31
    Senior Member Cedar Mill Limousine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwphx View Post
    "BUT we also must be VERY careful that we do not end up as socialistic economy (which some might suggest that we are already there!!). "

    Yep, it happened when the Treasury bought into the banks. Government ownership in financial institutions is the pinnacle of socialism.
    I think social security and welfare might be a hint of socialism myself.
    Rich Rottier
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  2. #32
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    Default Here in Michigan

    "If you like what Granholm (Governor) has done for Michigan, you are going to love what Obama will do for the country."

  3. #33
    Junior Member Limo Padawan
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    Default Is This About Socialism/Politics?

    I thought it was about Independent Contractors!

    By the way? McCain's idea of buying up houses and selling them back to people is PURE socialism at it's finest.

  4. #34
    Senior Member Cedar Mill Limousine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Earl Metcalf View Post
    "If you like what Granholm (Governor) has done for Michigan, you are going to love what Obama will do for the country."
    I had some power brokers from NY in the back the other night--they were discussing how much it would cost to just buy Michigan...
    Rich Rottier
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  5. #35
    Senior Member Cedar Mill Limousine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmitchell55 View Post
    I thought it was about Independent Contractors!

    By the way? McCain's idea of buying up houses and selling them back to people is PURE socialism at it's finest.
    Agreed...but we only have two choices at this point...
    Rich Rottier
    219.808.0976 | richrottier@gmail.com

  6. #36
    Super Moderator Limo Scene's Avatar
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    There isn't enough detail here for me to give an opinion on what went wrong. It is indeed such a gray area from region to region. I do know that a uniform can weigh extremely heavy in labor law. The mere wearing of a uniform represents a company, a law enforcement or fire agency or even a Fed Ex driver uniform. When you see these uniforms there is a tendancy to associate the person wearing the uniform with the issuing entity. I am aware of at least one labor dispute where employees of a company were asked to attend a community function in uniform and when they expected to be paid, the company balked and said it was not "work" in the area they were hired. The Labor Board found different and stated that an employee asked to wear a uniform provided by the company must be compensated for representing the company as instructed by management regardless of the nature of the event. In others words, if they have the uniform on, they are functioning as an employee except during the normal course fo driving to and from work.

    If you "leased", "rented" or what ever you want to call it, a vehicle to a person who had to pay for the use of the vehicle, the fuel of the vehicle and other operating expenses of the day, I am not sure how this person can be considered an employee as he has financial risk and obligations.
    Jim A. Luff
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  7. #37
    Junior Member Limo Padawan
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    Default Jim?

    "If you "leased", "rented" or what ever you want to call it, a vehicle to a person who had to pay for the use of the vehicle, the fuel of the vehicle and other operating expenses of the day, I am not sure how this person can be considered an employee as he has financial risk and obligations."

    What if you don't rent or lease the vehicle from the company? What if you are only paid $17.00 per run plus gratuity no matter what the cost of the job? The limo company owns the car, with vanity plates that everyone knows belongs to that particular limo company? The limo company pays for the gas and repairs, as well, but the so-called I/C has to clean it after work - unpaid, of course. What defines a true I/C? Thanks for your time.

  8. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by bmitchell55 View Post
    "If you "leased", "rented" or what ever you want to call it, a vehicle to a person who had to pay for the use of the vehicle, the fuel of the vehicle and other operating expenses of the day, I am not sure how this person can be considered an employee as he has financial risk and obligations."

    What if you don't rent or lease the vehicle from the company? What if you are only paid $17.00 per run plus gratuity no matter what the cost of the job? The limo company owns the car, with vanity plates that everyone knows belongs to that particular limo company? The limo company pays for the gas and repairs, as well, but the so-called I/C has to clean it after work - unpaid, of course. What defines a true I/C? Thanks for your time.
    I know you asked Jim, but my opinion is it falls under the definition of employee.
    Tough times don't last. Tough people do.

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  9. #39
    Super Moderator Limo Scene's Avatar
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    That is my thought was well. And, to be more specific:

    Since the vehicle belongs to the company, the company pays the plates, fuel, car washing expense and blah, blah, blah, that is their car and they are EMPLOYING someone to drive it. I am not sure what that crap is about paying $17 per run but it is CRAP. Because the chauffeur only gets a wage (and it is a wage) of $17 he may get a great deal or maybe not. If the run is an airport trip lasting less than an hour - beautiful. However, if it is a five hour A/D on a Saturday night, the wage breaks down to a measley $3.40 per hour when calculating only the five hours. But we all know that you have to have time to drive to the pickup and back to the yard. You have to get gas. You have to put ice and soft drinks in the car etc. and all this takes time and chauffeurs should ABSOLUTELY BE PAID FOR THIS TIME! They aren't doing it for fun. They are doing it as a part of work and they should be paid for every bit of their work. That being said, now you are down to $2.62 per hour + the tip that was EARNED by the chauffeur and will NOT be considered a part of the wage by a labor board. If you collect a gratuity or tip up front - the owner/company can keep no part of this money. Likewise, it is not considered part of EARNINGS but a gift that was merely passed through the company to the chauffeur.

    So, for the $17/hr. I would march my ass right into the labor board and ask to see a deputy commissioner to discuss this matter. I would have the results of this meeting put in writing - WITHOUT FILING A CLAIM and take it to whoever needs to see it. Unless you want to create real drama, leave the company name out. You can also complete an IRS From SS-8 and submit it to the IRS for their determination. Click here: http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p1779.pdf
    Jim A. Luff
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    If nothing else, you have a minimum wage violation here.

  11. #41
    Senior Member Cedar Mill Limousine's Avatar
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    You guys are throwing this company under the bus without knowing any of the details.
    Rich Rottier
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  12. #42
    Super Moderator Limo Scene's Avatar
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    No, I don't believe I threw them under the bus as no names have been named but I am confident what they are doing is sleazy. Having spent months and months in court and thousands and thousands of dollars, I got quite the education on IC's. There is absolutely NO excuse for paying someone $17 per trip. It is bullshit any way you look at it so let's not try to put any sugar coating or positive spin on this company.

    I expect everyone in this business to "man up" and make sure your chauffeurs are paid at least minimum wage for every single minute they put in to making money for the company they work for. I expect all tips or gratuities to be given 100% to the person intended. I expect them to be covered by workers comp while they are working. I expect both parties to pay into the social security fund for the long term benefit of the employee when he retires or have a better plan than the SSA's.

    I don't think that it too much to ask. Take care of the people who take care of the business. Without chauffeurs (and damned good ones at that), you have no business. They do the work. They are the face of your company. They are the reason people come back or don't so why would you try to screw the person who puts a roof over your head, food on your table and clothes on your back?????
    Jim A. Luff
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  13. #43
    Senior Member Cedar Mill Limousine's Avatar
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    Jim, my hands are full right now, if I get a chance I will be more detailed but go over his numbers again (spread out over 3 posts) the numbers don't add up. If you ask me this guy has an axe to grind...just my opinion
    Rich Rottier
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  14. #44
    Junior Member Limo Padawan
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    Default Cedar and Jim

    I'm not a guy, I'm a girl and I have more than an axe to grind. I came here to get the opinion of real professionals, not men who hide behind titles in fancy associations. I worked 70 to 80 hours a week for this company and was paid 17 per trip plus gratuity, but there was always a 3-4 hour gap in between trips; time I was never paid for. On A/Ds, I was paid 10 per hour plus gratuity, but here's the kicker. The client I drove to the tune of 50K last year - paid to the company - was MY client. I brought her to the company and when I left recently, she came with me. I have been driving her for over 6 years, exclusively. If I were a true I/C, wouldn't I be getting a much larger percentage than 10 dollars per hour, plus gratuity? They charged her 50 per hour, plus, plus. Wouldn't a true I/C receive about 65% or so of the job and not 20%? I know I don't meet the criteria for being labeled an I/C, but there's a lot about the inner workings of this business that I don't know about. I have been doing this for quite a few years, but this was my first experience working as an I/C. I really appreciate all the assistance you guys have given me.

    Brigitte

  15. #45
    Senior Member Cedar Mill Limousine's Avatar
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    Brigitte,

    Nice to meet you, if you like, you can call me Rich. First can you explain what is $17/trip. How long is a trip? To be an IC you must be independent. The things you explained before sounds like you were not. But may I be frank for a minute, did you ever discuss your pay with this company before you accepted this job? As far as percentages go (just because you are an IC DOESN'T mean you are paid percentage and vice versa) it is whatever you agreed upon when you came into the relationship--65% or 20%--whatever you two agreed upon, some companies pay better than others.

    I commend you for researcing this and not just accepting whatever circumstances you were in--I never understood why anyone would work for someone who doesn't treat them well. That is why I get a little suspisious when someone just starts mouthing off. It sounds like you quit and moved on to better things and you should be commended for that!
    Rich Rottier
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