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Thread: Arrgghh. No power to the back 99 Krystal TC 120

  1. #1

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    Well,
    Jumped in the stretch tonight. Turned on the power to the back. I can hear the inverter for the neon lights come on, but NOTHING in the back comes on. The inverter for the neon lights sits right behind the front seat and from looking at the circuit board it probably runs off a different circuit than the rest of the back. Power has been working FINE up until that moment.

    Then I turned off all the switches for the individual circuits to the back (While leaving the main power on) then turned them back on one by one. The first one I turned on was the solid. Once I turned it on it worked. Then I tried the rest one by one and they all came on. I then got out of the car to try to get my drivers side front power window up (Its stuck halfway down...I can fix that though, trying to get this power to the back fixed first) and when I jumped back in everything was off again. I tried turning them off and on one by one, but this time they didnt come back on and I still have no power to the back.

    Anyone have any hints? It looks like power is getting to the circuit board but it cant get past the circuit board. One thing I would like to add is that when I got in the car I heard one of the relays clicking. I hit it with a screwdriver a couple of times and it stopped clicking. I checked a wiring diagram I found for 99-02 Krystals and it says thats the cabin relay.

    Shold I try switching it out? Or are these the symptoms of a short somewhere?

  2. #2
    Member Limo Padawan
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    Hello, I have the same exact limousine, Something simaler happened to me, it was the bulb for the fiber optics.. if it is the same for you, dont waste $30+ online, goto walgreens or walmart and get one for $5.. they resemble a bulb from an overhead projector. You said they turned back on though?.. so did mine, the filament fused back together when I turned the switch on and off a few times, it worked for a few days like that.. heh

    If it is not that, it could most likely be your alternator that powers the rear, if its running week it will show symptoms such as you are having. Put a multi meter on it and see what its pushing.

    Hopefully you get it figured out. Clients dont like it when things arent functioning properly
    Another Fool trying to make it in this business...
    http://www.profilelimousine.net

  3. #3

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    Originally posted by ProfileLimoMN:
    Hello, I have the same exact limousine, Something simaler happened to me, it was the bulb for the fiber optics.. if it is the same for you, dont waste $30+ online, goto walgreens or walmart and get one for $5.. they resemble a bulb from an overhead projector. You said they turned back on though?.. so did mine, the filament fused back together when I turned the switch on and off a few times, it worked for a few days like that.. heh

    If it is not that, it could most likely be your alternator that powers the rear, if its running week it will show symptoms such as you are having. Put a multi meter on it and see what its pushing.

    Hopefully you get it figured out. Clients dont like it when things arent functioning properly
    Profile,
    Thanks! Ill keep that in mind. Im thinking I may call MTG and see if they can give me a nudge in the right direction.

    I just finished disconnecting the power window motor from my regulator so i can get my drivers side window up. Went outside at 5:30 AM, got done around 7:30 (1st time doing this on a 98-02) it took me an hour and a half to figure out how to get to the screws that hold the pull straps on (its always the small things that take me so long lol)

    Anyone else have any hints/suggs about the power to the rear issue?

  4. #4
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    I would try checking the window regulator on the bench, it may be good. I'm thinking that it's a low battery/bad alternator issue. The electronics in a Krystal won't work properly if they don't have enough juice and this would also cause your window to stop. Have the battery and alternator checked then clean/replace battery cables and terminals. How old are the starter and solonoid? How old is the rear-power solonoid? With the cold weather starting it may be time to replace them before they go bad.

  5. #5

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    Originally posted by Digger:
    I would try checking the window regulator on the bench, it may be good. I'm thinking that it's a low battery/bad alternator issue. The electronics in a Krystal won't work properly if they don't have enough juice and this would also cause your window to stop. Have the battery and alternator checked then clean/replace battery cables and terminals. How old are the starter and solonoid? How old is the rear-power solonoid? With the cold weather starting it may be time to replace them before they go bad.
    Digger,
    Thanks for the post. I am about to run and pickup my electrical meter from my other car now. I am not sure if I have the dual alternator setup, I know I have 2 batteries though. Guess I can figure it out by looking at the front of the engine to see if there are 2 alternators lol. The old fashioned way right? Once I test the alternators and batteries for voltage Ill post what I find.

    BRB running to grab my stuff. Ive been up since 5:30 working on this thang.

    p.s. I already checked my window, its definitely the regulator. Im gonna take the motor apart now and make sure those rollers arent too chewed up. I replaced them before on my 91 TC. Unfortunately I am getting pretty good with these damn Lincoln Windows. I worked on a 73 Continental a while back too. I think im turning into a Ford man (Oh nooooooo lol)

  6. #6
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    If you have dual alternators it will look like this...

    I may be wrong but I think Krystal normally puts the 2nd battery low, in front of the radiator on the passenger side. It's easier to get to it front underneath, in front of the front passenger tire.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  7. #7

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    Check alternator output voltage. May also want to check relays. Sometimes they can be intermitent just before they go bad for good.

  8. #8

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    All,
    Thanks for the info. Just got back in. I looked and my alternator setup is almost identical to that except it is mounted on the other side.

    I then checked my Circuit Board. Im getting 1 volt at the ignition fuse on the circuit board, 14 volts at the ignition relay (Terminal 85), 14 volts at the Panel Illumination relay (Same terminal) and 0-1volts at the Front Overhead and the rest of the relays going to the right there at the top.

    Should I be checking the bottom row of relays?

    If my logic is right maybe the Front Overhead is the issue. I know when I hit the Master Power Switch for the rear cabin I hear a click from the Circuit Board area (Same as normal. I mean its not a click like something is wrong, more a click like a motor is turning on, probably that neon light thing) so I am thinking its getting power, maybe the circuit back to the Circuit Board to the Main Cabin is the culprit.

    Any hints/suggestions anyone???

  9. #9
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    The clicking is a good thing, that's the sound of a relay activating.

    You should find that all of the relays are the same, start swapping them and flip some switches, this will help decide if a relay has went bad somewhere.

  10. #10
    Member Limo Padawan
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    Put your meter on your alternator.. or just goto an auto parts store, they will check your alternator and battery for free. Dont goto MTG or inf Ino for a fiber optic bulb.. WALMART.. 5$.. the sound you are hearing isnt an inverter its the fiber optic brain box behind the passenger seat, there is one philips screw to remove and you can see if the bulb is bad, while your at it you might aswell clean it out good, it will make your fiber optics look twice as good.

    Dont know if its your problem for sure.. but dont worry about relays until you know you have good alternators/batteries.


    Originally posted by J Paul White:
    All,
    Thanks for the info. Just got back in. I looked and my alternator setup is almost identical to that except it is mounted on the other side.

    I then checked my Circuit Board. Im getting 1 volt at the ignition fuse on the circuit board, 14 volts at the ignition relay (Terminal 85), 14 volts at the Panel Illumination relay (Same terminal) and 0-1volts at the Front Overhead and the rest of the relays going to the right there at the top.

    Should I be checking the bottom row of relays?

    If my logic is right maybe the Front Overhead is the issue. I know when I hit the Master Power Switch for the rear cabin I hear a click from the Circuit Board area (Same as normal. I mean its not a click like something is wrong, more a click like a motor is turning on, probably that neon light thing) so I am thinking its getting power, maybe the circuit back to the Circuit Board to the Main Cabin is the culprit.

    Any hints/suggestions anyone???
    Another Fool trying to make it in this business...
    http://www.profilelimousine.net

  11. #11

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    ok i check it out and found that i only have 3v coming from th 2nd batt to the distribution block and at the battery terminal on the second alt... my cuz took a jumper across the soleniod and everything started workin...But when you turn the car off and back on again, nothing works unless you jump across the soleniod... oh yeah i only get 3v to the soleniod top terminal, but when i jump to the top terminal the solniod clicks... So i'm guessin it is the battery and alt...

  12. #12

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    The green circles are where I tested and the voltage was 3-4v
    The black circle on the solenoid is where I tested it and the voltage was 12v

    After touching 12V to the top of the solenoid (jumping it in my terms) or the side where it was reading 3-4V (Green circle), the power came on to the back. You will note a 2nd green circle on the back of the alternator. I tested it there as well and it was 3-4v until I jumped the solenoid then it read 14v as well.

    My next move is to pull BOTH batteries and the top altenator and take them to get tested. Dangit more work, more work.

    Anyone else have any hints? I Thought I read somewhere where someone had to jump their solenoid as well to get the power on to the back...

  13. #13

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    Oh yeah,
    I think the 2nd battery is in front of the passenger side front tire. Theres a panel with a nut and a small screw in it. I think if I take that off I can get to the battery

  14. #14
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    Before removing any batteries, check the voltage at the green circle or back of the 2nd alt. with the car running. If it's still 3v, then odds-are the internal diode in the alt. has went south. If you are getting the full 12v behind the alt. then I'd say it's the solonoid, not the alt.

    You "can" use a standard Ford starter solonoid as a replacement for testing, but make sure you do the permanant replacement with the right type. A Ford style isn't made to stay on a long time like the old one was.

  15. #15

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    Originally posted by Digger:
    Before removing any batteries, check the voltage at the green circle or back of the 2nd alt. with the car running. If it's still 3v, then odds-are the internal diode in the alt. has went south. If you are getting the full 12v behind the alt. then I'd say it's the solonoid, not the alt.

    You "can" use a standard Ford starter solonoid as a replacement for testing, but make sure you do the permanant replacement with the right type. A Ford style isn't made to stay on a long time like the old one was.
    Done,
    4 volts. I neglected to add that when I ran the other tests the engine was running.

    My regular alternator/battery is reading fine too, its the 2nd one/battery that reads low until I jump the solenoid. Im going to have everything checked when I go to AutoZone. I wonder what type of alternator will work good?

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