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Thread: 15 Passenger Van + Trailer. How do you manage more than 10 passeger +lugg

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluelimos View Post
    Phil,
    Can you please tell me how this combination is most dangerous. I am always too scared about safety and I certainly do not want to take such chance out of ignorance and run in to accident. The Coach is just too big, I personally don't like to deal with the Coach. With the parking situation we have, it will also not fit well in our lot.

    ~Dee
    I'm assuming the parking situation is a height issue because it cannot be a parking space issue. A van and a trail will take up 2 spaces. A mini-coach will fit into one, however it may fully fill up that one spot from side to side and be a little longer than a van but won't be as long as a 120" stretch.
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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by BLVD Limo View Post
    I'm assuming the parking situation is a height issue because it cannot be a parking space issue. A van and a trail will take up 2 spaces. A mini-coach will fit into one, however it may fully fill up that one spot from side to side and be a little longer than a van but won't be as long as a 120" stretch.
    A Ford 15 passenger van is just shy of 20'. A smaller ford bus might be a little wider but shouldn't be much more than 3-4' longer than that depending on the bus. One of the reasons I wanted one is because my building is 3 different sections and the one I use for storage I have a lot of leftover space for vehicles but the door and ceilings just aren't tall enough.

  3. #33
    Super Moderator gunny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Oak Transportation View Post
    A 14 passenger van brand new at my local Ford dealer is just south of $ 40,000 and one of these buses built for this type of transportation at $ 51,000 is a no brainer in my opinion. Yes the costs are a bit higher with the bus but you dont have a trailer out in the back of the van and the bus is much more stable than a van and Phil makes great points about them rolling over. I have seen and heard vans rolling over and people getting maimed or killed in these accidents here in the southeast. An accident happened last spring with a college soccer team had its van roll over and students were maimed and killed.
    In my neck of the woods a 2012 E350 van be had for around $30k off the lot (http://www.fordofportrichey.com/new-...FTRe7Aod6FDtMQ). I would like to see pricing links for 2012 bus conversions. Also, how about news links to VFH van rollovers.

    Vans have been proven to roll... so have cars & SUVs & planes will continue to fall out of the sky. Thousands of VFH 15 paxs are on the roads racking up heavy mileage. Lets see the news articles on all of the roll overs these suckers are involved in.
    Last edited by gunny; June 12th, 2012 at 07:33 AM.
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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Limo Insurance King View Post
    I am only talking about the safety concerns present, not procurement and operating expenses. I meant no disrespect nor do I want to come off as being combative.

    To address price, while the bus chassis does have a higher price tag, the difference isn't three times. Buses start between $45k-$55k depending on engine options and 15pax vans start between $35k-$40k.
    We don't get combative Phil This is just a debate on real life operations. I stand corrected on the pricing for buses as the last time I was searching I was looking at 16+ vehicles not 15 so the pricing is skewed a little though there remains a 15-20k per unit difference . My position remains the same though. If the vans were experiencing higher roll over incidents I'm sure that industry leaders like Super Shuttle would be ditching them in favor for bus chassis vehicles. Of course this would be in addition to DOT banning them for VFH use esp interstate carriage of passengers.
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    Full-size vans are the one type of vehicle that your odds of dying in a crash are 20% greater than in any other passenger vehicle. The statistics are tracked and published by the FMCSA & NTSB find it. With regards to links to traffic fatalities, its unfortunate but on average more than four fatal accidents will occur today in America. There aren't articles written about them all. There was a motorcoach accident here in Kentucy yesterday. Did anyone hear about it even given the fact that the USDOT has buses in the news lately?

    A simple Google search of the news though unfortunately provides a link to this article about a 15pax van crash, with three fatalities, and it happened in Florida, not even 10 days ago: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...95234968db6098

    With regards to them being made illegal, this proplems is so far widespread that it cannot be recalled. I do feel as though the vans should go the way of the 3-wheeler and lawn darts though.

    Concerning price, the differences really aren't much especially if one were to buy a few years old.
    Last edited by Limo Insurance King; June 12th, 2012 at 08:07 AM.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Limo Insurance King View Post
    Full-size vans are the one type of vehicle that your odds of dying in a crash are 20% greater than in any other passenger vehicle. The statistics are tracked and published by the FMCSA & NTSB find it. With regards to links to traffic fatalities, its unfortunate but on average more than four fatal accidents will occur today in America. There aren't articles written about them all. There was a motorcoach accident here in Kentucy yesterday. Did anyone hear about it even given the fact that the USDOT has buses in the news lately?

    Google search of the news though unfortunately provides a link to this article about a 15pax van crash, with three fatalities, and it happened in Florida, not even 10 days ago: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...95234968db6098

    With regards to them being made illegal, this proplems is so far widespread that it cannot be recalled. I do feel as though the vans should go the way of the 3-wheeler and lawn darts though.

    Concerning price, the differences really aren't much especially if one were to buy a few years old.
    Looking for VFH rollovers Phil. I can start pulling all kinds of recent sedan rollover links just in the Tampa Bay area. "Any vehicle" that leaves the road at high speed is subject to going air borne & flipping.

    One incident I witnessed about 6 months ago on the BeeLine heading into Port Canaveral where I was passed by another VFH 15pax doing in excess of 70 MPH. Heard a loud bang as the van's front right tire blew. A little swerve within the lane and the driver brought the vehicle under control as he pulled it to the shoulder. Another is vans along with sedans were utilized in the EVOC course I took in the late 80's. Anyone who has taken such a course knows that EVOC is centered around high speed driving. Driver's experience plays an important role.
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    We're fighting to fight now I supose. Gunny, I have a great amount of respect for you as a man as well as an operator and nothing I say was intended to cast an ill shawdow on you or your operation. I knew when I made that first post that it would get you involved, although I was hoping you wouldn't just because I didn't want to banter with you. We are going to have to agree that each of use have good counterpoints to each others points.

    On another note, I am a proud graduate of Eastern Kentucky University's Criminal Justice program with studies in their Traffic Safety Institute and EVOC was obviously the favorite of the whole program. http://tsi.eku.edu/

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    Quote Originally Posted by gunny View Post
    Of course this would be in addition to DOT banning them for VFH use esp interstate carriage of passengers.
    Actually Gunny, for a few years schools and church groups were banned from buying (new) 15 Pass vans. This was a major shot in the arm to the bus builders. Once Ford added ESC (Electronic Stability Control) they were back to being allowed.
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  9. #39

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    I thought my agent told me the 15 passenger vans were dropped from most commercial insurance coverage

    for 12 years I drove mbulances and I can sure testify that a ont ton single rear wheel rig is no where near as stabile as a dual rear wheel rig, and my old diamond 25' bus handle wind and load better than my astro van

  10. #40

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    We have been using an E350 with trailer for about 3 years. We were charging more if the trailer had to be added. We never had any issues, however we added a 14 passenger Federal Executive Van recently that has plenty of luggage space and we now offer the trailer to only a few DMC's who are looking for the most economical rate. The trailer was nice to have, but it was a bit of a pain. We also wanted to portray a different image driving down the road.

    In our market, the E350's are a dying breed. They are still making money, but they are a rough ride, rattle, and are a pain to get in and out of. We will continue to add Sprinters and Federal conversions, even though the price is higher.
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    [QUOTE=Premiere #1 Limousine;108680]We also wanted to portray a different image driving down the road.[QUOTE]

    Speaking of image, Rich @ Cedar Mill sent me a picture once of a 120" going down the interstate with luggage spilling out of the trunk, and a ratchet-strap keeping the trunk lid down. Talk about classy!

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Limo Insurance King View Post
    We're fighting to fight now I supose. Gunny, I have a great amount of respect for you as a man as well as an operator and nothing I say was intended to cast an ill shawdow on you or your operation. I knew when I made that first post that it would get you involved, although I was hoping you wouldn't just because I didn't want to banter with you. We are going to have to agree that each of use have good counterpoints to each others points.

    On another note, I am a proud graduate of Eastern Kentucky University's Criminal Justice program with studies in their Traffic Safety Institute and EVOC was obviously the favorite of the whole program. http://tsi.eku.edu/
    Aww hell Phil it's not fighting. In fact I used the oddity of the PTC not allowing mini-vans & other vehicles under a pretense of "safety" while allowing high profile 15 pax's and noncertiified stretches. I continued to be amused of the safety concerns voiced by many operators who themselves nor their drivers ever attended any type of formal driver's school & frequently overload 120's with bodies & luggage & operate modified vehicles not certified by the original manufacturer .

    That said, I believe a very good reason why we will not find too many 15 pax VFH rollover incidents is that on average, I'd be willing to bet, the max passenger load is around 8. Over the years headline news articles of deadly roll-overs seems to involve over-loaded vans carrying migrant workers driven by ????.

    Of course the average passenger load & how much the vehicle will earn must be another consideration one must take in deciding what type vehicle to invest in.
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  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Premiere #1 Limousine View Post
    We have been using an E350 with trailer for about 3 years. We were charging more if the trailer had to be added. We never had any issues, however we added a 14 passenger Federal Executive Van recently that has plenty of luggage space and we now offer the trailer to only a few DMC's who are looking for the most economical rate. The trailer was nice to have, but it was a bit of a pain. We also wanted to portray a different image driving down the road.

    In our market, the E350's are a dying breed. They are still making money, but they are a rough ride, rattle, and are a pain to get in and out of. We will continue to add Sprinters and Federal conversions, even though the price is higher.
    Jonathon, I just sold my E450 Federal 14-passenger luxury coach. It was almost identical to the one that you have. It was a fantastic vehicle that made a ton of money. I sold it to buy the larger Ameritrans 20-passenger executive salon bus.

  14. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wade Randolph View Post
    Jonathon, I just sold my E450 Federal 14-passenger luxury coach. It was almost identical to the one that you have. It was a fantastic vehicle that made a ton of money. I sold it to buy the larger Ameritrans 20-passenger executive salon bus.
    It arrived about a month ago and we love it. We had to adjust the air ride a bit, and is now running great. We are already considering adding another one in the next month or so. Your Ameritrans is very nice. We were up in the air about this type of conversion when we saw them at the AC show. It may be worth taking a second look. How many bags can you fit in the rear compartment?
    Jonathan
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  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Premiere #1 Limousine View Post
    It arrived about a month ago and we love it. We had to adjust the air ride a bit, and is now running great. We are already considering adding another one in the next month or so. Your Ameritrans is very nice. We were up in the air about this type of conversion when we saw them at the AC show. It may be worth taking a second look. How many bags can you fit in the rear compartment?
    I have no idea as I have never driven it. I also have the Firestone air shocks. We keep 40psi in each shock and seems to ride pretty smooth.

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