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Thread: 15 Passenger Van + Trailer. How do you manage more than 10 passeger +lugg

  1. #16
    Senior Member Bigdan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Limo Insurance King View Post
    There are a number of reasons that make the 15 passenger van, regardless of make/model, dangerous. Just do a Google search and you will find them. One thing that will stand out at you is the number of personal injury law firms that actually provide advice about their use and advising that they not be used--this speaks volumes to me. All of the variables on their own would make a vehicle dangerous, however with the 15 passenger van, and some 12pax vans, there are a number of things such as high center of gravity, structural design, and physics of their suspension system make this type of vehicle more susceptible to rollover than any other vehicle AND at a lower speed than any other vehicle. Those reasons are inherently present in any of these vehicles, these following reasons add even more to the list: Poor tire maintenance; Poor maintenance program; lack of qualified driver; lack of quality driver training program; Speed. I have seen videos of 15pax vans that have rolled over at speeds less than 30mph.Add a trailer to this situation and now you have a dangerous vehicle, that now has even more weight added to the rear of the vehicle. If you talk to anyone in the transportation risk management industry about their use, they will encourage you to remove it from operation and replace it with a vehicle built on a bus chassis.
    Hard to argue all of that, lol, thanks for sharing your knowlege.

  2. #17
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    I used to use an enclosed trailer when I flipped houses years ago, they take about 2 minutes tops to hook up and you can get one brand new for around 2-3k.

  3. #18
    Senior Member Wade Randolph's Avatar
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    Federal and Ameritrans both make excellent 14-passenger mini-coaches on the E450 chassis that have a ton of luggage space.

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    Senior Member LIMOJESS's Avatar
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    There are many videos out there that teaches one how to drive the big 15 pass vans especially for non cdl drivers. I have a dvd from nothland insurance that i make my drivers watch before they start driving the big vans I got it from them 8 years ago.

  5. #20
    Senior Member LIMOJESS's Avatar
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    Wade you do not have to go E450 for a 14 pass van. A E350 with a V10 engine is good enough.I know Wade hates Starcraft but they made me a nice 2012 Starquest for $51,000. It is low profile and my clients love it.
    All three are made by the same comapny Forest River.

    Tacoma-20120315-00366.jpg

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  7. #22
    Super Moderator gunny's Avatar
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    Default 15 PAX Van Safety

    I'm in my 10th year here in FL. Van transport probably comes close to equally the unit number of running limos with the vans operating at a much frequent tempo. I haven't heard of one commercial van accident no less any commercial accidents involving serious injury/deaths anywhere within the state.

    Forgetting that a trailer is hooked up? Every glance into the rear mirror is a reminder but yes, the van handles a trailer very well so one may forget that one is being towed.
    Airport Limo Service Spring Hill, Brooksville, Citrus County FL
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    I didn't want to start a debate with my comment, however it is a fact, not speculation with regards to the danger involved. The federal government and insurance companies have solid statistics that prove these risks are real and present. 15pax vans are three times more likely to roll-over than other classes of vehicles with regards to passenger capacity.

    Are there people, such as yourself Gunny, that own, operate 15pax vans and never have a bad day? Absolutely, but the risk is inherently present and at such low speeds. All one needs to do is research 15 passenger van safety studies and I feel as though the evidence is compelling enough to not use them.

  9. #24
    Super Moderator gunny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Limo Insurance King View Post
    I didn't want to start a debate with my comment, however it is a fact, not speculation with regards to the danger involved. The federal government and insurance companies have solid statistics that prove these risks are real and present. 15pax vans are three times more likely to roll-over than other classes of vehicles with regards to passenger capacity.

    Are there people, such as yourself Gunny, that own, operate 15pax vans and never have a bad day? Absolutely, but the risk is inherently present and at such low speeds. All one needs to do is research 15 passenger van safety studies and I feel as though the evidence is compelling enough to not use them.
    I am aware of the testing & the warnings over the past decade plus.. Unless I am missing some high profiled news reports, incidents of commercial van accidents Nationally do not seem to validate the warnings and there are plenty of them in use on the roads . So unless someone points out facts & figures showing Super Shuttle & the like flipping 15 paxs, we can simply agree that under controlled testing, certain 15 pax vans do exhibit more of a tendency to roll .
    Airport Limo Service Spring Hill, Brooksville, Citrus County FL
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    They're like pit-bulls. They are not illegal to own but they are responsible for more bites and deaths than any other breed of dog. The meer fact of owning one means the owner has a greater likelihood to dealing with a situation that is not favorable to them than they would had their choice been of a different breed. If an operator feels as though their choice of vehicle is best for them I cannot argue against it. I will express my concern though as well as offer a solution. This solution is any vehicle built on a bus chassis, which is not much different than a 15pax van other than some of the unsafe characteristics have been addressed.

    In regards to facts and figures I understand your stance, but the facts I speak of do not come from controlled tests with a van equiped with out-riggers and a professional driver jerking the steering wheel back and forth. I am speaking from crash statistics, specifically crashes that involved a roll-over and fatality within the van.

    These stats don't lie: Per one million registerd vehicles, the death rate for all occupants, not just drivers, is higher for 15-passenger vans than for other passenger vehicle types combined — 149 versus 121 deaths per million registered vehicles. And on average, more than half of these deaths are a result of a single vehicle, roll-over, which means the contributing factor is either the vehicle, the driver, or a combination of the two.

  11. #26
    Super Moderator gunny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Limo Insurance King View Post
    They're like pit-bulls. They are not illegal to own but they are responsible for more bites and deaths than any other breed of dog. The meer fact of owning one means the owner has a greater likelihood to dealing with a situation that is not favorable to them than they would had their choice been of a different breed. If an operator feels as though their choice of vehicle is best for them I cannot argue against it. I will express my concern though as well as offer a solution. This solution is any vehicle built on a bus chassis, which is not much different than a 15pax van other than some of the unsafe characteristics have been addressed.

    In regards to facts and figures I understand your stance, but the facts I speak of do not come from controlled tests with a van equiped with out-riggers and a professional driver jerking the steering wheel back and forth. I am speaking from crash statistics, specifically crashes that involved a roll-over and fatality within the van.

    These stats don't lie: Per one million registerd vehicles, the death rate for all occupants, not just drivers, is higher for 15-passenger vans than for other passenger vehicle types combined 149 versus 121 deaths per million registered vehicles. And on average, more than half of these deaths are a result of a single vehicle, roll-over, which means the contributing factor is either the vehicle, the driver, or a combination of the two.
    Do you know what a 15pax bus costs in comparison with a production line van Phil?

    Going on a much larger operating scenario. Why would a Super Shuttle invest in vehicles with a price tag of at least 3X that of production 15pax vans when their drivers are not out there rolling vehicles? I like to pick Super Shuttle as an example because they use IC's who must drive like cabbies to make the nut needed to pay their fees plus make a living & therefore are cranking mileage up under all extremes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunny View Post
    Do you know what a 15pax bus costs in comparison with a production line van Phil?

    Going on a much larger operating scenario. Why would a Super Shuttle invest in vehicles with a price tag of at least 3X that of production 15pax vans when their drivers are not out there rolling vehicles? I like to pick Super Shuttle as an example because they use IC's who must drive like cabbies to make the nut needed to pay their fees plus make a living & therefore are cranking mileage up under all extremes.
    A 14 passenger van brand new at my local Ford dealer is just south of $ 40,000 and one of these buses built for this type of transportation at $ 51,000 is a no brainer in my opinion. Yes the costs are a bit higher with the bus but you dont have a trailer out in the back of the van and the bus is much more stable than a van and Phil makes great points about them rolling over. I have seen and heard vans rolling over and people getting maimed or killed in these accidents here in the southeast. An accident happened last spring with a college soccer team had its van roll over and students were maimed and killed.

  13. #28
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    I am only talking about the safety concerns present, not procurement and operating expenses. I meant no disrespect nor do I want to come off as being combative.

    To address price, while the bus chassis does have a higher price tag, the difference isn't three times. Buses start between $45k-$55k depending on engine options and 15pax vans start between $35k-$40k.

  14. #29
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    So I was considering getting a 15 passenger van and doing a party bus interior to hopefully fit like 10-12, I can get a used one a year or two old with like 50k miles for about $12-15k as opposed to spending 35-40 on a bus with the same specs. How much higher do the insurance companies charge for the liability insurance?

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    Quote Originally Posted by brandon1 View Post
    So I was considering getting a 15 passenger van and doing a party bus interior to hopefully fit like 10-12, I can get a used one a year or two old with like 50k miles for about $12-15k as opposed to spending 35-40 on a bus with the same specs. How much higher do the insurance companies charge for the liability insurance?
    If you can get one or two year old with only 50k miles on it for anything less than 18-20k, I think it is a super steal. Liability insurace is same as Sedan in NJ.
    ~Dee

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