Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 65

Thread: LCT At It Again! Top 100 List A Fraud

  1. #16

    Default

    Gunny,

    City of Austin would show 7 for us. We have 12 all together in Austin.

    Originally posted by gunny:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TxLimoGuy:
    Regs vary from city to city in Texas, but in Austin they do not regulate anything seating more than 14 passengers + driver...ie they do not permit or inspect H2 limos, minibuses or motorcoaches. .
    To restate the question Tony, if I contacted Austin VFH section & asked for a permit count for Marriton, what number would I get & what is your fleet size? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
    Tony Franzetti
    Marriton Limousine, Austin, TX
    Austin Limousine service, Austin airport service, austin bus charters
    http://www.marritonlimo.com

  2. #17
    Super Moderator gunny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Tampa Bay
    Posts
    5,325

    Default

    For what it is worth, this is a revised tally with motor coaches subtracted from the LCT totals. Again the first set of numbers is LCT published the second set from the survey conducted:


    Metro (Mi) 310/19
    Presidential 88/41
    Diamond 73/15
    Valera 211/0
    Diva 206/79
    LeGrande Affaire 150/56
    Bauer's 127/79
    Aventura 108/48
    Farrels 105/82
    Rudy's 102/104
    O'Hare 100/71
    Hy's 94/66
    Wynne 90/20
    London Town Cars 77/76
    A Premier 60/43
    Capricorn 65/43
    VIP 58/63 (went from spot on to less)
    Smart Cars 63/0
    Lifestyle 63/49
    Corporate Connection 34/11
    El Paseo 61/39
    American Limos 59/19
    Above All 53/17
    BKTT 46/35
    Westwind 53/8
    Action 48/30
    Reliable 64/53
    Tennessee 70/34
    Eagle 81/71
    WST* 135/0

    Showing the results for less than a third, there is an obvious trend of illusion. Even more of an illusion and a little frustrating is that I can't seem to find the following Top 100 on the NYCTLC site:
    TownCar International - Long Island City - 463 vehicles
    A Elegant d/b/a ECS - Staten Island - 66 vehicles

    I read awhile back these 2 merged or something but I can't find them under the blackcar or limo base listing under any name.



    *Added to listing in Septembers Issue
    Airport Limo Service Spring Hill, Brooksville, Citrus County FL
    http://gunnysairportlimo.com/tampa_a...ce_spring_hill

  3. #18

    Default

    Jim:

    Do those lists come directly to LCT from the insurance carrier or are the limo companies providing them? Do they include VIN numbers or are the just a summary? Just wondering how accurate and detailed those reports are.

    It is curious to me how companies in IO territory have such large fleets which, according to you, are backed up by insurance documents. I would think that if the vehicle was operated by an IO that the IO would be carrying the insurance, not the limo company, but then again I know some of the IO models being utilized have lots of creative permutations as well.

    Just patiently trying to understand....and no, I don't envy any you you who take on this herculean task....The challenges are daunting.

    Originally posted by Limo Scene:
    We asked for a "fleet list" from the reporting companies carriers and included only cars that were actually insured by the company.
    Tony Franzetti
    Marriton Limousine, Austin, TX
    Austin Limousine service, Austin airport service, austin bus charters
    http://www.marritonlimo.com

  4. #19
    Senior Member LIMOJESS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    seattle, wa
    Posts
    1,521
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Gunny spent two days on this and got the numbers of fleet for each company.

    Lct has had this for a while to check and recheck the numbers.

  5. #20
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Las Vegas, NV
    Posts
    268

    Default

    How do I begin…… Well, this top 100 operator list has been a problem for years. I remember talking to Sara about this years ago when number of fleets were turned in and not audited at the time. At that time, we discussed that taking the word of the operator was all that could be done. I said that this is sad that operators had to lie about this. She agreed.

    Published fleet numbers are being used as advertising tools and Limousine Operators claim in local advertising in their market as the largest operator. This is fine if it’s all true. The problem with all of this is by publishing fleet sizes that are not accurate put the competition in a different light. The media has a responsibility to be as accurate as possible. Many forms of media will retract or reprint or rebroadcast in regards to mistakes for information that was not accurate. Besides stroking ones ego, I am unclear the true importance of all of this, other than if something is being published, it should be as accurate as it can be. Fleet numbers needs to be off within a few cars. Not off by 30 or 40 or 50 vehicles. It makes the whole study meaningless. As I travel around and speak with operators I know and new operators I meet, the same story is told. I know that operators in all markets know what their competition has in their fleets. I guess this is a kind of “Limo Sport” this industry does.

    Have been a California Limousine Operator, this is what I know. To be in the Limousine Business, you are regulated by the California PUC. The PUC has a form that needs to be filled out when adding or deleting a vehicle. If you don’t change your fleet, a required sheet must be filled out once a year. Once a form has been filled out to add a vehicle into the fleet, you need to mail in the form and a letter will be sent back with the VIN number on the letter that will be given to the DMV to receive the required Livery Plate. This must be done to obtain airport permits and to be legal through out the state. All records are public information and can be reviewed by calling the PUC in San Francisco and they can help you with the operators PUC number. Here is an example. Gary Bauer, I know Gary well, his TCP number is 8361. After calling the PUC, the number of vehicles he has under TCP 8361 is 79. Now, if Gary has 2 TCP numbers or more, I don’t know, but if he operates under one number, the state claims the number is 79 not like posted in the LCT as 144. I am not attacking Gary and I am using this as an example because we are friends, but where is the other vehicles???

    You know, it’s a shame that this industry doesn’t reward operators for doing a top job. I know, we have “Operator of the Year” but I don’t think this is enough. So many cab minded operators destroy this industry with the money grab attitude. So many different states have this problem going on. The Top 100 list is a joke. Everyone knows it and it is printed to be evaluated and laughed at every year. Different markets do different things. I am sure if California Operators could run IO’s they would. I know I would! The savings is workers comp and expenses would be HUGE! Operators in New York don’t have the financial out of pocket expense other operators do. Does this make the study fair? Apples and Oranges………………..

  6. #21
    Super Moderator gunny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Tampa Bay
    Posts
    5,325

    Default

    Seeing that the Industry has given such a wide berth on the definition of a "fleet" maybe next year we can get AAA Travel in on the fun!
    Airport Limo Service Spring Hill, Brooksville, Citrus County FL
    http://gunnysairportlimo.com/tampa_a...ce_spring_hill

  7. #22
    Super Moderator Limo Scene's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Bakersfield, CA 93307
    Posts
    3,419

    Default

    And, since Avis provides "chauffeurs" I guess they would have the biggest fleet of all.

    Dave, you finally explained to me what I have asked many times - WHO CARES?

    So, now I get it! The list is published for fun, amusement, entertainment and to give us all something to talk about that has no real meaning or purpose.

    Tony, the lists are provided by the limousine companies and vary in appearance. Most have VIN's but some do not. On an unrelated note, where are you staying in Atlantic City.

    Gunny, you coming to Atlantic City?

    I am so done with this Top 100 thing. Dave is right, it has been going on for years and outside of my pee pee is bigger than yours statements who really gives a damn? It is useless information and both magazines should drop the practice.
    Jim A. Luff
    Forum Moderator
    Contributing Editor & Consultant - LCT Magazine

    Limousine Scene - An Award Winning Company Since 1990
    Bakersfield, CA
    Limousines, Sedans, Vans, Charter Buses, Limo-Buses, Wheelchair Vans www.limousinescene.com

  8. #23
    Super Moderator gunny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Tampa Bay
    Posts
    5,325

    Default

    Originally posted by Limo Scene:
    And, since Avis provides "chauffeurs" I guess they would have the biggest fleet of all.
    And there are enough triple digit I/O car services in NYC that meets the current criteria used to knock out over half the current Top 100 listing.

    Agreed, LCT should drop this yearly illusion & concentrate on more important things. If not, there is always limos.com to be used as the platform to call out the Top 100 .
    Airport Limo Service Spring Hill, Brooksville, Citrus County FL
    http://gunnysairportlimo.com/tampa_a...ce_spring_hill

  9. #24

    Default

    It is not a well researched list by any means and never has been. From 2003, I bring you this vintage comment by the Master: J.H.J. " The Top 75 is a fictitious list assembled by LCT magazine and fellow travelers to reward companies of their own choosing. Any resemblance between the list and reality is strictly coincidental. The Top 75 use this list in their advertising and promotion to further their own interests. LCT has long since proven that it can't count. There is no credible effort made to make the list accurate in composition, or accurate in count. " You can read this quote in full by James H. Joseph ( JHJ ) by searching under TOP 75. Originally posted June 30th 2003.
    Dean Schuler

  10. #25
    Super Moderator gunny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Tampa Bay
    Posts
    5,325

    Default

    Originally posted by Dean Schuler:
    It is not a well researched list by any means and never has been. From 2003, I bring you this vintage comment by the Master: J.H.J. " The Top 75 is a fictitious list assembled by LCT magazine and fellow travelers to reward companies of their own choosing. Any resemblance between the list and reality is strictly coincidental. The Top 75 use this list in their advertising and promotion to further their own interests. LCT has long since proven that it can't count. There is no credible effort made to make the list accurate in composition, or accurate in count. " You can read this quote in full by James H. Joseph ( JHJ ) by searching under TOP 75. Originally posted June 30th 2003.
    There is a wealth of information contained in the archives & I often review JHJ's comments as he has proven, the fraudulent information presented to the industry is a continuing vicous circle. This "size" issue went from the Top 75 to the Top 100 just to allow more inferiority type complexes to stroke themselves with LCT supplying the vaseline.
    Airport Limo Service Spring Hill, Brooksville, Citrus County FL
    http://gunnysairportlimo.com/tampa_a...ce_spring_hill

  11. #26

    Default

    Going forward we need to look at the important figures for our businesses such as profit per unit, company profits, miles without an at-fault accident,etc. Templates for best practices need to be available to all industry members. The networks, veteran operators and the twenty groups do a good job of spelling out the proper percentage of each expense. Some of the consultants know to the cent what operators should be spending.
    Dean Schuler

  12. #27
    Super Moderator Limo Scene's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Bakersfield, CA 93307
    Posts
    3,419

    Default

    I did think the same thing Dean. While it would never happen, I would LOVE to see the bank statement of companies on each of the quarter ending dates of a year. I want to know how much money is in the bank. How much is going in each month and how much is coming out. That would show me where I stand.

    Does Digest not do a Top list of some type? I seem to recall they do. Now, I wonder why, Gunny, you never pick on them? Maybe cause they are not the king. As for Dean bashing LCT, well, I know why that happens as he has a beef with them so of course he will. Not to mention being a writer for Digest and ditto for Dave Hartson except that he has no beef with LCT and seems to be much more objective in his comments that subjective.

    I appreciate the fact that as writers from different magazines at least we still sit down and break bread together in person. But really, why all the hate for LCT when Digest does and reports on the same issues?
    Jim A. Luff
    Forum Moderator
    Contributing Editor & Consultant - LCT Magazine

    Limousine Scene - An Award Winning Company Since 1990
    Bakersfield, CA
    Limousines, Sedans, Vans, Charter Buses, Limo-Buses, Wheelchair Vans www.limousinescene.com

  13. #28
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Lupton mich USA
    Posts
    2,128

    Default

    I agree with Mr. Schuler and Mr Luff. Who cares who's Pee Pee is bigger.
    David E. Merrill

  14. #29
    Super Moderator gunny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Tampa Bay
    Posts
    5,325

    Default

    Does Digest do a Top 50-75-100? Dean/Dave answer please.

    Luff, do a recall if you will on my challenging of LCT articles (subject matter) then ask me that moronic question again.

    David, evidently someone cares whose peter is bigger as this is an annual event & much work by the LCT Staff is put into the compilation of the figures submitted by the Limo Envy Crowd.
    Airport Limo Service Spring Hill, Brooksville, Citrus County FL
    http://gunnysairportlimo.com/tampa_a...ce_spring_hill

  15. #30

    Default

    Digest does not publish a Top 100 list. My mentors at LCT were Richard Ramis and Maury Sutton from 1986-1990 when I was a Southern Correspondent for Mr. Sutton, the Publisher. He, like I, believes in truth in numbers. The current Top 100 is a poor piece of work. Where is the beef ? That is the question, my friend.
    Originally posted by Limo Scene:
    I did think the same thing Dean. While it would never happen, I would LOVE to see the bank statement of companies on each of the quarter ending dates of a year. I want to know how much money is in the bank. How much is going in each month and how much is coming out. That would show me where I stand.

    Does Digest not do a Top list of some type? I seem to recall they do. Now, I wonder why, Gunny, you never pick on them? Maybe cause they are not the king. As for Dean bashing LCT, well, I know why that happens as he has a beef with them so of course he will. Not to mention being a writer for Digest and ditto for Dave Hartson except that he has no beef with LCT and seems to be much more objective in his comments that subjective.

    I appreciate the fact that as writers from different magazines at least we still sit down and break bread together in person. But really, why all the hate for LCT when Digest does and reports on the same issues?
    Dean Schuler

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •