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Thread: private not for hire questions

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vintage Limos View Post
    I'm not sure why you dug this out after over 3 years. But once you charge anything, you're doing it for hire. These are not your friends and you're not doing it as a favor.
    I used the search feature and decided rather than creating another thread, this one was relevant so I appended to this one.

    Under that approach, then even if I took him to the airport in a Miata and he spotted the gas money, I would still be doing it for hire.

    Does anyone find this kind of odd that the government and other interests have this much control over our lives that we can't even drive our friend to the airport in our personal car and have him cover the gas without having all kinds of permits and gobs of insurance?

    A friend would do just that. Hey man, can I ask a favor of your time but I'll cover the gas? So one friend is sacrificing the time and the other is sacrificing the gas. How is that not normal? Friends are considerate of each other and do each other favors. This is a perfect "give and take" situation here. An inconsiderate friend wouldn't even offer the gas.
    Last edited by Cougars 2 go; September 21st, 2013 at 03:17 PM.

  2. #17
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    Dude, every time everyone gets in the car to drive they break the law in at least some way. We don't get pulled over every single time we ever so slightly roll a stop sign or change lanes with out fully using the blinker properly.Just relax, take your "friend" to the airport and let them pay for gas. But be ready to get questioned if you show up in a limo, and be ready for trouble if they question your "friend" about what they are paying for the ride and he/she/they don't say "nothing."

  3. #18

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    Especially if it's not your friend.

    The laws are there to protect the consumer. When they get into a "fore hire" car that is properly licensed with the proper authorizations to conduct business, they know that you have the proper insurance. If you don't, and get in a wreck, even if it's not your fault, at least they know they are covered. And if the insurance company finds out that this person was being driven around for hire, it will not cover that person, or maybe nothing in the event of a crash.

    The government is in your business the same way that it is when it checks out the food that you buy in the store to make sure it is safe for consumption.

    If the person is your friend, then really, no one will care. But if they aren't and something happens, expect to loose what little you probably have in civil litigation.
    Last edited by Vintage Limos; September 22nd, 2013 at 04:53 PM.
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  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vintage Limos View Post
    If the person is your friend, then really, no one will care.
    Ok, there is still some sanity out there.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by FamilyLimo View Post
    I think the bottom line is that if your passenger(s) are going to say they aren't paying for the ride, the authorities have nothing on you.However, as we know, they can still make your life difficult if they feel like it. If you're showing up a lot at the airport dropping off and more so picking up friends, they are going to feel like it.
    Quote Originally Posted by FamilyLimo View Post
    Dude, every time everyone gets in the car to drive they break the law in at least some way. We don't get pulled over every single time we ever so slightly roll a stop sign or change lanes with out fully using the blinker properly.Just relax, take your "friend" to the airport and let them pay for gas. But be ready to get questioned if you show up in a limo, and be ready for trouble if they question your "friend" about what they are paying for the ride and he/she/they don't say "nothing."
    I'm not going to the airport a lot. Actually, I've never picked up or dropped off anyone in these cars at the airport.

    Why the quotes around "friend?"

    After all this, it seems the best bet is to say "it's probably illegal for me to accept gas money." I'll call the PSC though.

    Thanks everyone for your input. More and more regulation as the months and years tick by. This could turn into a political discussion but not here.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vintage Limos View Post
    The government is in your business the same way that it is when it checks out the food that you buy in the store to make sure it is safe for consumption.
    Thanks for your input. I understand what you meant here but it's kind of ironic too because the paragraphs of ingredients derived from chemical engineers are deemed "safe for consumption" by the government.

    The older I get, the more I learn that it's all about money. Often times "safety" is the cloak used to hide the real motives for regulation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cougars 2 go View Post
    I'm not going to the airport a lot. Actually, I've never picked up or dropped off anyone in these cars at the airport.

    Why the quotes around "friend?"

    After all this, it seems the best bet is to say "it's probably illegal for me to accept gas money." I'll call the PSC though.

    Thanks everyone for your input. More and more regulation as the months and years tick by. This could turn into a political discussion but not here.
    If you are not going to the airport, then the only thing you have to worry about is an injury accident and the lawsuits starting to fly. If the people you are taking in the car when it crashed now hate you for crashing and causing them injury and they feel like making life difficult for you, they can say they paid for the ride (even a reduced rate equal to the cost of gasoline), and you will have a whole lotta other things to worry about, like your regular low-cost car insurance not being valid because you were using the car for business. And you probably won't call each other friends anymore. Then you have to worry about the other people that weren't in your car that got hurt suing you. You won't have any coverage, and you will be sued directly.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by FamilyLimo View Post
    If you are not going to the airport, then the only thing you have to worry about is an injury accident and the lawsuits starting to fly. If the people you are taking in the car when it crashed now hate you for crashing and causing them injury and they feel like making life difficult for you, they can say they paid for the ride (even a reduced rate equal to the cost of gasoline), and you will have a whole lotta other things to worry about, like your regular low-cost car insurance not being valid because you were using the car for business. And you probably won't call each other friends anymore. Then you have to worry about the other people that weren't in your car that got hurt suing you. You won't have any coverage, and you will be sued directly.
    So, you are saying the same applies in a Miata, a Suburban, or a LTC. Gas money = problems. No money, no problems. I'll be sure to bring this up in conversation how gas money can lead to problems.

    Yeah, it's the money. Money for the lawyers, money for the insurance industry, money for the passengers, money for the government, etc.

    Some of you guys went on with the business assumptions and such. Where did I state this was attached to a business? You either assumed it was a business or you are saying any time someone accepts gas money for a ride in anything, they are engaging in for-hire transportation.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cougars 2 go View Post
    So, you are saying the same applies in a Miata, a Suburban, or a LTC. Gas money = problems. No money, no problems. I'll be sure to bring this up in conversation how gas money can lead to problems.

    Yeah, it's the money. Money for the lawyers, money for the insurance industry, money for the passengers, money for the government, etc.

    Some of you guys went on with the business assumptions and such. Where did I state this was attached to a business? You either assumed it was a business or you are saying any time someone accepts gas money for a ride in anything, they are engaging in for-hire transportation.
    From my post, your issue is with your insurance coverage. Your best bet hands down is to call your insurance agent to find out how they would treat your coverage in the situation you described when you have an accident. That's your main issue -- coverage in the event of an accident -- so ask the people that know the real answer instead of us.

    Oh, and certainly just about any car can be, and is, used as taxi cabs, so no, it doesn't have anything to do with the vehicle. My insurance looks at my private stretched LTC limo as just a regular car as long as I don't use it for commercial purposes.
    Last edited by FamilyLimo; September 22nd, 2013 at 08:37 PM.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by FamilyLimo View Post
    From my post, your issue is with your insurance coverage. Your best bet hands down is to call your insurance agent to find out how they would treat your coverage in the situation you described when you have an accident. That's your main issue -- coverage in the event of an accident -- so ask the people that know the real answer instead of us.

    Oh, and certainly just about any car can and is used as taxi cabs, so no, it doesn't have anything to do with the vehicle.
    Covered as regular POV like my other cars. So if I can take someone to the airport in my other cars... don't see how this is any different. Forget the gas money. I'll just have to turn it down and say that gives the special interests and money hungry an avenue to suppression.
    Last edited by Cougars 2 go; September 22nd, 2013 at 08:40 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cougars 2 go View Post
    Covered as regular POV like my other cars. So if I can take someone to the airport in my other cars... don't see how this is any different. Forget the gas money. I'll just have to turn it down and say that gives the special interests and money hungry an avenue to suppression.
    You probably can't legally and insurance wise take other people in your Miata for hire. Do people do it? Sure.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vintage Limos View Post
    The government is in your business the same way that it is when it checks out the food that you buy in the store to make sure it is safe for consumption.
    Did anyone see the story about the little girl's lemonade stand shut down by the police because of laws with similar purpose?

    Quote Originally Posted by FamilyLimo View Post
    You probably can't legally and insurance wise take other people in your Miata for hire. Do people do it? Sure.
    Where is the "for-hire" aspect in this scenario? Remember, I said forget the gas money - turning it down. So I'm at a loss where there is a "for-hire" ingredient here.

  13. #28

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    If these people really are your friends and they need you to take them around for whatever reason and they're giving you gas money to offset your expense... No big deal, I wouldn't sweat it.

    The problems come in when you're driving around people that you don't know and they don't know that you're not a legitimate livery company.
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  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cougars 2 go View Post
    Where is the "for-hire" aspect in this scenario? Remember, I said forget the gas money - turning it down. So I'm at a loss where there is a "for-hire" ingredient here.
    You just seem fixated on they type of vehicle being used, and my point is that any vehicle that is used for hire that is not insured and permitted to do so is asking for trouble. That's my point.

    Now go out and have some fun driving your friends all over town and give it a rest! I know I do with my limo. I just find it fun, and I make sure they don't compensate me in anyway because I tell them they could get me in hot water. They always want to give me money for gas or some kind of expensive liquor as a gift, and I just don't even want them to think about doing that. To me it's like inviting someone to dinner and making them pay for their own dinner and/or mine. That wasn't the idea, so I am glad I have a credible excuse like insurance issues as to why they can't gift me.
    Last edited by FamilyLimo; September 23rd, 2013 at 09:44 AM.

  15. #30
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    Cool. Thanks folks for all the dialogue and insight on this one.

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