NLA MEETINGS?

I will address this to Scott S. since usually he is the only one that seems to care. I would like to know WHEN,and WHERE the the next NLA meeting will be taking place. It is my understing that they take place in D.C. Is this true? On a final note is the meeting open to the membership?

The next Board meeting according to my notes will be in Las Vegas during the show. Members in the past have been allowed to sit in on most of the meetings.

The last Board meeting we had was in Atlantic City during the Limo-Digest Show,

John Sinibaldi
NLA Board Member

Will the meeting in vegas be open to membership?

To Limos.com viewers,

The NLA will hold an official membership meeting on Monday, March 18 from 11:30am-1:30pm in the Champagne Ballroom, Paris Hotel in Las Vegas. This meeting will be held in conjunction with the LCT Show. This meeting, sans the dinner, is a general assembly open to all NLA members. Members will be briefed on what committess worked on in 2001, 2002 goals, a financial report, votes on bi law revisions will take place and the announcement on who was voted into a seat on the board of directors will be conducted at this annual membership meeting.

Also a board of directors meeting will be held on Saturday, March 16th from 8am-5pm at the Paris in LV. The room has limited seating so although it's open you should advise Tom Mazza, the new NLA executive director, in advance (tommazza@aol.com).

The members will be given a final agenda for the general membership meeting two weeks prior to the show, or you may see it posted on the NLA website in February (limo.org).

Hope this helps you.

Regards,

Sara

Hey, congratulations Sara, someone finally got it right - the NLA "bi laws" - they mean one thing to the directors and something else to the members. Sara ought to try reading those by-laws and she'd discover the election of the directors now under way is not in compliance, that there is a procedure for noticing members of the annual meeting, and there is a quorum requirement to hold a lawful meeting, and that none of this has been, is being, or will be done, apparently because these requirements are as "inconvenient" to LCT as they were to prior management or as they are to the directors. Looks like we have a new fiddler, but Rome is still burning.

James H. Joseph
Pegasus Chauffeured Motor Cars
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
jhj@pegasus-pittsburgh.com

Jim your point is noted as discussed last year but I am not sure Sara or Tom could have done anything this year. I feel the whole thing needs revamped and think it might be happening. I also do not like not being able to vote for a President, even Jimmy Hoffa was elected by his members!!!!
GM the TT

A quarom is 10% of the voting membership which would mean that approx. 150 active members would need to be present. Since the average number of NLA members who attend the LCT Show is around 800, getting a quorum should not be a problem.

The "save the date" notice of the meeting which will confirm the date, time, place and state the meeting purpose will be mailed to active members on February 12th. The final meeting agenda will be sent out on March 5.

As you know Jim, LCT's parent company assumed the management of the NLA effective Feb. 1. Therefor, HMC is handling the election process. I am not aware of any foul play here, but I'm all ears if you'd like to clarify your issues with the election process.

Thanks.

Sara, no need to restate what was said here a year ago in minute and meticulous detail. The election is contrary to the by-laws, and you will not see 800 "members" at the so-called meeting. There may be 800 "people" from companies that are members, which brings up the issue I raised last year - how do you determine if they are members in good standing, how do you determine WHAT PERSON has the right to cast the vote of a partnership or corporation, how do you receive and evaluate proxies (the by-laws provide for and allow same, but the Board refuses to provide the "approved form" mentioned in the by-laws), etc, etc, etc, etc, etc. Read back, Sara - NLA learned nothing in a year and your "parent company" will come away with just as much a black eye as its predecessor because it has the same disregard for following the by-laws.

I'm anxious to see when hundreds of people come to the meeting how the management company is going to determine who is who, who can vote, etc. This is going to be a cluster f**k if ever there was one.

By the way, are you still acting as an NLA director for which there is no by-law authorization?

The only difference between this year and last year, is that I have decided there's no benefit to waste my time and effort to pursue litigation - the basic problem being there isn't enough smarts in the limousine industry to have a viable trade-association. I don't want to conquer Afghanistan merely to hand it back to the Taliban - and that's all we do when we point out that NLA is a rogue organization that is nothing more than a nymphomaniac at which a small group of companies take turns having at it. Right now, Scott, George, David and a few others are getting their turn, but it's no different than last year, or the year before, or next year, or the year after. Can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear ---- soooo-eeeee soooo-eeeee!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sara McLean:
A quarom is 10% of the voting membership which would mean that approx. 150 active members would need to be present. Since the average number of NLA members who attend the LCT Show is around 800, getting a quorum should not be a problem.

The "save the date" notice of the meeting which will confirm the date, time, place and state the meeting purpose will be mailed to active members on February 12th. The final meeting agenda will be sent out on March 5.

As you know Jim, LCT's parent company assumed the management of the NLA effective Feb. 1. Therefor, HMC is handling the election process. I am not aware of any foul play here, but I'm all ears if you'd like to clarify your issues with the election process.

Thanks.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

James H. Joseph
Pegasus Chauffeured Motor Cars
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
jhj@pegasus-pittsburgh.com

it does any good to point out that Article 5, Section B of the by-laws requires (ambiguously, of course) that the notice of a meeting be sent 30-45 days before the meeting stating the place, time, date and PURPOSE of the meeting. By Sara's own admission, this provision is being violated by LCT's "parent" from the very git-go. Everyone see what I mean - they don't even care enough to read the by-laws. Sara hasn't even read what was said here last year, she just wants me to repeat everything. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to comply with by-laws, you just have to WANT TO. It starts by reading, and I admit that reading is a real challenge to most of the people I've met who think they're the movers and shakers in NLA.

Guy - you are a fool, and I'll remind you of that in a year or two when even Joey gets fed up and walks away from NLA. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, except for those who want merely to rape the NLA for their own benefit, no person with half a brain will stay committed to trying to reform this rogue organization.

I have to admit that revenue from dues should double or triple under Tommy Mazza's reign at NLA since dues are based on vehicle numbers and Tommy sees double when it comes to vehicles - sometimes triple.

James H. Joseph
Pegasus Chauffeured Motor Cars
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
jhj@pegasus-pittsburgh.com

Article 5 Section F of the NLA by-laws provide that a Nominating Committee rport is supposed to be mailed to all members "30 days prior to the annual meeting" - duh, that would be February 24 - and that members are to then vote for directors, and the ballots are supposed to be opened at the annual meeting - note Article 5, section E, which makes the "election of directors" part of the Order of Business at the annual meeting - not the "announcement of the election of directors," as Sara claims will happen. These ballots are supposed to be opened in the light of day, not in somebody's darkened back room.

That's only a tidbit, Sara - you wanted to know what is wrong with the election process. What are you going to do about it other than continue to ignore the by-laws.

And, oh yes, what about electing directors by region. No provision in the by-laws - clearly unlawful. But, hey, who cares, according to Corey Rozen (anybody remember him?), by-laws are merely "guidleines." Looks like LCT bought into that convenient line of thought.

Like I said - a bunch of kids trying to play corporation. Too bad there are no adults around.

James H. Joseph
Pegasus Chauffeured Motor Cars
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
jhj@pegasus-pittsburgh.com

The NLA has notified us of the candidates along with a report.

Jim most know my opinions and fights with the NLA, I have been very disturbed with them since that certification garbage with Pinnacle right up to November when they selected the other company to manage it. The FSGTO Association Chapters were already discussing not to renew, Tampa members were the first to vote not to because basically the NLA hadn't done anything for us and when they came to Orlando all they did was lie and blow smoke, then finally the management company fiasco at the Digest show.We again went on the rampage about the selection process as we felt if there was any hope LCT & Tom Mazza was it. The next thing was to continue to work on getting the board changed, it is happening then LCT got the contract. Hopefully at this next election more of the problem people will get knocked out. The Bylaws are being addressed to add the realigning of the areas properly and to vote for directors in your region only, I gave my 2 cents that all members should vote for President, VP's, Secretary and Treasurer. Hopefully now that some of the idiots have backed off Joe and finally allowing him to run, he and a few of the others we need in there will get elected. At our local meeting last night these things were discussed and the members felt that changes like this can only be a positive and maybe depending on the elections and with LCT soon to take over, maybe they should be given another year to get their act together. Now if the elections don't add the right people this feeling could change. I agree with you on the point of getting notices out and that is something that will also have to change and once LCT is settled in I am sure it will. Right now I feel the TLPA is the best run national organization but I think at this stage the NLA should be given another year, who else is out there anyway. As I have said before there is many things that I agree with you about but now I am going to address some of your comments, as this fool happens to not be afraid of or fear no one, never have never will, I will be happy to take on anyone anytime right or wrong.For you to make a comment that people in this industry can't read anyway sucks and if thats the case why do you even deal with any of us and waste your time writing. The next comment about Tom Mazza seeing triple I am not sure where thats going but I will say this about Tom, Paisan or not, if thats your next comment, he has given more of his time to me and our associations in Florida then any person outside our state. Phone calls, emails, advice, suggestions or whatever, he asked for nothing in return, for that I commend him, for being a friend I thank him. Do I feel he will do the job for the NLA and the members absolutely and if for some reason it doesn't happen it won't be because he didn't give it 110 % and for those that don't think he should have been given the chance and want to criticize him before the fact they can kiss my ass.
Yes Italians do stick together, to bad.
As Stone Cold says "Thats the bottom line"
Enough is Enough already, now is not the time to be pounding on Sara or Tom!!!
TTT

You ahve your views and I have mine. I suggest that my view of the reading and intelligence level in the industry is very accurate - remember, I am generalizing and not sugesting that EVERY limousine operator suffers from these disabilities (indeed those who frequent limos.com are of a higher cut that most others). You may protest if you want, but I think the facts support my view. As far as Tom and Sara are concerned, I think that both are equipped to do the job but because of inherent conflicts they have to be watched very carefully. Neither of them are new to the NLA, and they were around as the problems developed over years - I can't say they are part of the problem rather than the solution, but I can't give them the benefit of the doubt yet. I supported Tom when he sought, independently, to manage NLA because I think he is quite capable of doing so, and he has an admirable track record in the industry, and I will never take that away from him. I must add, however, that I have reservations based on the fact that Tom plays his favorites and he is exceptionally thin-skinned. These traits will not help him in a struggle to manage NLA unless he can set them aside. And somebody has to watch and be willing to say when the Emperor wears no clothes - and since nobody else will, I'm appointing myself to that position. I'm not from Missouri, but "Show Me" what they can do. Their start coming out of the blocks is not impressive, and Joey is not a savior. I don't think he'll tolerate the crap any longer than have a whole string of predecessors. The good people get out! I voted for Joey, and if I could stuff the ballot box, I would - but since the ballots are opened in a back room somewhere and not in accordance with the by-laws, it doesn't matter how people vote - the results will be what certain people want them to be and the board is illegitimate from the git-go. NLA will NOT, in my opinion, survive for all of the reasons I have stated for over a year. It may be propped up for awhile by LCT because of the extreme financial self-interest LCT has in keeping it alive, but it is built on shifting sand with a foundation that cannot support a viable national trade organization. It may continue as an adjunct or ward of LCT, but it has no independent viability.
No one should be "afraid" of expressing their opinion here, that's what these forums are for. More people should do it, but you saw what happened after the last election - nothing, and the appearance here of David Seelinger and Scott Solombrino was for the sole purpose of getting elected. Neither of them will bring meaningful change to the NLA. Interested in any side bets?


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tampa Terror:
Jim most know my opinions and fights with the NLA, I have been very disturbed with them since that certification garbage with Pinnacle right up to November when they selected the other company to manage it. The FSGTO Association Chapters were already discussing not to renew, Tampa members were the first to vote not to because basically the NLA hadn't done anything for us and when they came to Orlando all they did was lie and blow smoke, then finally the management company fiasco at the Digest show.We again went on the rampage about the selection process as we felt if there was any hope LCT & Tom Mazza was it. The next thing was to continue to work on getting the board changed, it is happening then LCT got the contract. Hopefully at this next election more of the problem people will get knocked out. The Bylaws are being addressed to add the realigning of the areas properly and to vote for directors in your region only, I gave my 2 cents that all members should vote for President, VP's, Secretary and Treasurer. Hopefully now that some of the idiots have backed off Joe and finally allowing him to run, he and a few of the others we need in there will get elected. At our local meeting last night these things were discussed and the members felt that changes like this can only be a positive and maybe depending on the elections and with LCT soon to take over, maybe they should be given another year to get their act together. Now if the elections don't add the right people this feeling could change. I agree with you on the point of getting notices out and that is something that will also have to change and once LCT is settled in I am sure it will. Right now I feel the TLPA is the best run national organization but I think at this stage the NLA should be given another year, who else is out there anyway. As I have said before there is many things that I agree with you about but now I am going to address some of your comments, as this fool happens to not be afraid of or fear no one, never have never will, I will be happy to take on anyone anytime right or wrong.For you to make a comment that people in this industry can't read anyway sucks and if thats the case why do you even deal with any of us and waste your time writing. The next comment about Tom Mazza seeing triple I am not sure where thats going but I will say this about Tom, Paisan or not, if thats your next comment, he has given more of his time to me and our associations in Florida then any person outside our state. Phone calls, emails, advice, suggestions or whatever, he asked for nothing in return, for that I commend him, for being a friend I thank him. Do I feel he will do the job for the NLA and the members absolutely and if for some reason it doesn't happen it won't be because he didn't give it 110 % and for those that don't think he should have been given the chance and want to criticize him before the fact they can kiss my ass.
Yes Italians do stick together, to bad.
As Stone Cold says "Thats the bottom line"
Enough is Enough already, now is not the time to be pounding on Sara or Tom!!!
TTT<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

James H. Joseph
Pegasus Chauffeured Motor Cars
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
jhj@pegasus-pittsburgh.com

Why is it that every year right before the LCT show there is all this drama. http://limos.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Anyways I must agree I feel that Scott and David have used this forum to supposedly show that they are involved in the industry to benefit themselves in some way or the other. If you can prove me otherwise than please do so. I'm very, very glad that Joe has run because I spoke with him personally and I truly feel that he cares about the industry and most importantly the little guy. Now in regards to the NLA I am very dissapointed because I have sent e-mails to the NLA and to this date, which is well over a month, I have received ZERO response. Promises that have been made in regards to help have not been met. We have some very, very, and I repeat very serious issues in Michigan going on and it semms that we are on our own. It is sad because when the NLA asks for help we jump to help them. Let me tell you it is getting harder and harder to convince over 47 GLLA member companies to become members of the NLA.

You notice that I asked Scott a question on this forum and yet he has not responded.

The silence was deafening!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by nkokas:
You notice that I asked Scott a question on this forum and yet he has not responded.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

James H. Joseph
Pegasus Chauffeured Motor Cars
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
jhj@pegasus-pittsburgh.com

JHJ, I almost always admire your whimsical posts. I can "hear" you ranting and raving over the internet wires. However, I am disappointed at the position you seem to have taken towards someone that I greatly admire and respect as well as her employer. Sara has shown over the years very effective management skills and the ability to lead and provide guidance to a wonderful convention in our industry each year. Have you ever taken over a project, job or function from someone who ran it into the toilet? If you have, you realize how difficult it can be to turn a failing project around. Personally, with all the mudslinging flying around here, I think to appease everyone, we should refer to NLA now as NLA II, a completely brand new entity. Then all the stupid bylaws which were never followed anyway by the clique of people who were purportedly "running" of the old, now defunct NLA are out the window. Sara, Tom and others at LCT should be afforded the opportunity to start with a clean slate. We are in the business together my brother and it's better to lend solutions and input to the problems than chastising and complaining while offering no solutions. I was not and am not a member of NLA because the whole organization was a joke and if I want jokes, I can have a party at a comedy club with a bunch of friends for the same price as the cost of admission to the club with about the same level of return on investment. So, please, let's give LCT the opportunity to start fresh and build an organization that we all as brothers & sisters in this industry can be proud of and call our own instead of the private "club" it was. And Jim, one more thing.......you really should go back to practicing law daily in the court room as the phrases and statements are truly classic and admired even if I don't necessarily agree with them at all times.

Hey Jim remember I didn't say I didn't agree with you. What I am saying is we can't write off Sara and Tom YET, I want to see how much influence they will have over the board to do things right.
As far as David S. well never mind.
Scott disappoints me by not getting on this forum.
As far as the election ballots, Carolyn Nelson is flying in view the opening and the counting, her I have faith in.
Nick you have heard me say the NLA never did anything for Florida and I blasted Joey about nobody calling you back and the problems your having. See with Sara, Tom, Joey, Richard and John S in there it will give us more people to talk to that may relate to what we are saying, up to now there was only Carolyn and John S. and that wasn't enough.
Tommy is nobodies puppet and when we had the problem with that other Florida for profit no member association yo yo he stood behind us and would not print anything about him.
Lets put it this way, if Sara and Tom can't pull it together nobody will.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Limo Scene:
JHJ, I almost always admire your whimsical posts. I can "hear" you ranting and raving over the internet wires. However, I am disappointed at the position you seem to have taken towards someone that I greatly admire and respect as well as her employer. Sara has shown over the years very effective management skills and the ability to lead and provide guidance to a wonderful convention in our industry each year. Have you ever taken over a project, job or function from someone who ran it into the toilet? If you have, you realize how difficult it can be to turn a failing project around. Personally, with all the mudslinging flying around here, I think to appease everyone, we should refer to NLA now as NLA II, a completely brand new entity. Then all the stupid bylaws which were never followed anyway by the clique of people who were purportedly "running" of the old, now defunct NLA are out the window. Sara, Tom and others at LCT should be afforded the opportunity to start with a clean slate. We are in the business together my brother and it's better to lend solutions and input to the problems than chastising and complaining while offering no solutions. I was not and am not a member of NLA because the whole organization was a joke and if I want jokes, I can have a party at a comedy club with a bunch of friends for the same price as the cost of admission to the club with about the same level of return on investment. So, please, let's give LCT the opportunity to start fresh and build an organization that we all as brothers & sisters in this industry can be proud of and call our own instead of the private "club" it was. And Jim, one more thing.......you really should go back to practicing law daily in the court room as the phrases and statements are truly classic and admired even if I don't necessarily agree with them at all times.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I fix broken companies. So, yes, I have frequently and for many eyars been involved in turning around companies that other people ran into the toilet and that is why I can criticize - because I know what works and what doesn't. As far as not offering solutions, my friend, you are apparently a newcomer here. Go back a year and scroll through the posts and you will hear me lud and clear on the solutions - it's just that nobody is smart enough to understand that they are solutions and are the only thing that will work. I'm going to repeat here, once and for all, a conversation that I had with Joey this morning. Here, my friends, is the bottom line, and it's no different than what I've been saying for a year and a half.
NLA is a teeny-tiny organization. It can't afford a management company, no matter who or what it is, unless that management company is bestowing gifts on NLA (it might be said that LCT has, in fact, been doing that for some years now, but it begs the point). The industry is too small and lacks people with sufficient depth and breadth of experience to run a national trade association. In addition, it is IMPOSSIBLE - let me repeat the word - IMPOSSIBLE - to run a national trade association with 19-20 board members and staff on telephone conferences - I'll say it again - IMPOSSIBLE - and it will never happen. There is one problem here, and only one problem - the BOARD - and everything else is people wasting time trying to fix things that aren't broke because they won't come to grips with the basic problem - the BOARD. Electing a president at large is not at all the answer, it's a fig leaf for the real problem - the BOARD. Electing directors by district is a fig leaf for the real problem - the BOARD. Here's the solution - and it's the ONLY one. If you think this arrogant, OK, but it's still the only solution - and you will realize it when NLA is dead and gone (by the way, there is no NLA II, that, too, is wishful thinking and a fig leaf for reality). Reduce the size of the board to six members elected at large. Call a special election to do it NOW, not next year. Everyone who wants to run gets to run. Every NLA member gets six votes and can cast them cumulatively. What does that mean? It means that every member casn cast those six votes however he/she wants - all six for one person, one each, 3 for one person and 3 for another, whatever combination you want. This solves the problem of spreading the board members out over the country. If the West wants a board member, the western members will bunch their votes and cast them for one or two people. If the East has too many people running and they split up their votes amonmg too many people, they'll lose influence to other geographic areas. This isn't rocket science boys and girls, this is simple corporate governance and these problems and solutions have existed for years, it's just that the limo business doesn't have real business experience. With a new board that so elected and which CAN do business by phone, you'll get a good president and other officers and things will happen.
Let me shed light on one other problem, which is the fundamental flaw in NLA. If each of our companies fail to offer a service that people want to buy for a fair price, we end up taking tickets in line at bankruptcy court. The laws of economics have not been repealed for trade associations. What service does NLA offer that anyone wants to pay for? What did you get for your dues in the past 12 months - NADA, except a couple of slick, out-of-date LimoScenes. Leave the lobbying to TLPA, it does a far better job. Join TLPA for that purpose. NLA must offer a sound educational program in company management, industry practices, accounting, computer systems and software, insurance, etc., etc. This is where the industry is weak - the participants lack education and experience in business generally, and in technology specifically. I explored this program at length over a year ago, and when we kick off NALA (North American Limousine Association) that will be the basis of it.
So, that's it boys and girls. Accept it or in the future you can scroll back here when NLA is in the dustbin of history and you will, perhaps only then, realize the precise bulls-eye I am hitting here.
By the way, I would remind people that clients pay me a lot of money to fix the kind of problem NLA has - you got it for free, and I guess that's why no one appreciates the advice. No one appreciates what they don't pay for. But it's no skin off my nose - I for one don't really care what happens to NLA anymore. I saw the futility a year ago, we've ginned up NALA to take its place. But if somebody wants to waste their time doing this the hard way, have at it. I learned long ago in my career that pissing with the aid of gravity beats pissing up a rope, and the latter is what the "fixers" are trying to do. Won't happen. You end up getting soaked!
And now a word about Sara, since you raised the subject. I didn't say a word about any of her skills at running a show or managing LCT, or anything else. I did say that NLA can't afford a management company, regardless of who is running it. I also said that the ONLY reason that Sara is involved is because of the near-miss LCT had with Host when NLA ran amuck and nearly terminated the relationship with LCT because of Host. The NLA Board is an unguided missile and LCT is not about to let the unguided missile bomb their show - so the lesser of two evils is to try to guide the missile. That's all that this is all about - period, finis, end of story. There is, however, a big downside. There are inherent conflicts of interest between NLA and LCT that will come to haunt this marriage. Turning over NLA to LCT is, inherently, an act of desperation on the part of both NLA and LCT. The Las Vegas show this year will be lucky to break even. NLA will only get a token amount of money from it. NLA is in a financial death spiral AS WE SPEAK. LCT will live to fight another day. NLA will not. NLA has no viable organizing principle. It offers no sevices that anyone wants to pay for. It offers only "belongingness" - people pay to belong. A lot like Zsa Zsa Gabor who was famous for being famous. What did she ever do? What did NLA ever do? People "belong" to say they "belong." Eventually, they realize they don't have to belong, and away they go. The Goldbergs, Seelingers, Solombrinos, etc. stick around to give their lobbying efforts the appearance of a natiowide effort support by a cast of thousands when, in fact, it is what it is, a figleaf. That's what we are paying for - belonging to a figleaf. We don't even get the figs. Fig-get-about it.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Limo Scene:
JHJ, I almost always admire your whimsical posts. I can "hear" you ranting and raving over the internet wires. However, I am disappointed at the position you seem to have taken towards someone that I greatly admire and respect as well as her employer. Sara has shown over the years very effective management skills and the ability to lead and provide guidance to a wonderful convention in our industry each year. Have you ever taken over a project, job or function from someone who ran it into the toilet? If you have, you realize how difficult it can be to turn a failing project around. Personally, with all the mudslinging flying around here, I think to appease everyone, we should refer to NLA now as NLA II, a completely brand new entity. Then all the stupid bylaws which were never followed anyway by the clique of people who were purportedly "running" of the old, now defunct NLA are out the window. Sara, Tom and others at LCT should be afforded the opportunity to start with a clean slate. We are in the business together my brother and it's better to lend solutions and input to the problems than chastising and complaining while offering no solutions. I was not and am not a member of NLA because the whole organization was a joke and if I want jokes, I can have a party at a comedy club with a bunch of friends for the same price as the cost of admission to the club with about the same level of return on investment. So, please, let's give LCT the opportunity to start fresh and build an organization that we all as brothers & sisters in this industry can be proud of and call our own instead of the private "club" it was. And Jim, one more thing.......you really should go back to practicing law daily in the court room as the phrases and statements are truly classic and admired even if I don't necessarily agree with them at all times.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

James H. Joseph
Pegasus Chauffeured Motor Cars
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
jhj@pegasus-pittsburgh.com

Although I usually don't respond to a forum, I will this time, but since my daughter is very ill (since 12/13/01, I won't be able to be on here and won't be able to open a can of worms and respond frequently. Just want to bring you up to date on my thoughts: I will be going to Kentucky to view the ballots being opened and counted. A lot of the members requested that I do this for you, so I will be there. As far as our new management company, I can't understand someone blasting them when they haven't had a chance to even get a chance and now people are jumping on them. Ease up and at least trust someone - I do trust them and am looking forward to the relationship with Bobit and the NLA. But you need to give them a chance and some time. Telephones are being transferred, computer data is being transferred. They are ready to be out of the gate, but I'm sure if you ever moved an office or your home, you couldn't find everything in one day. Give it time. I've been here 6 years and still can't find some of the boxes. There will be an annual meeting and Sara has posted the time and place for you. Hope to see you there. I am looking forward to the new board and may the best and hard working people win. The votes have been cast, now we just need to wait to get the tally. Remember if you want to make a change, get involved on a committee as we have done and work like we have, for no compensation, but to know that you made a difference and helped someone in your industry.

Carolyn


(post edited for readability- message context unedited)

[This message was edited by Viperion Corporation / Limos.com on January 18, 2002 at 01:12 PM.]

Holy Mother of God, can't you read that there is a meeting this year. My nephew, Tommy is taking over the NLA and he will do a great job. Give him a flying chance. I don't understand why some people don't have anything better to do than to bash someone who hasn't been given a chance. What is wrong with you? IS your business so slow that all you have time for is to critize. Give my nephew a chance, for crying out loud. Some mentioned that every time we get close to a conference, the wierdo's come out of the wood work. If you don't like what is going on, then volunteer your time and get something done. My husband's friend, Joey is running for the board and I know that he cares about us small operators and will help make a difference, but give them a chance. I heard that Carolyn is going to KY to watch the ballots being opened. A first, and I trust her. She's Italian, like me. Puts up with a lot. Go get some work done and let these people get their work done. Who has time for this? I sure don't. Trying to get back east before the real snow starts. Make some speghetti on Sunday on a cold day and visit with the family.

I will address this to Scott S. since usually he is the only one that seems to care. I would like to know WHEN,and WHERE the the next NLA meeting will be taking place. It is my understing that they take place in D.C. Is this true? On a final note is the meeting open to the membership?

http://limos.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

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[This message was edited by Viperion Corporation / Limos.com on January 18, 2002 at 01:15 PM.]

Hello!

(Jim) since you seem to enjoy using middle east analogies I thought you'd appreciate today's newspaper headline which read, "Afganistan Craving For Normalcy." The story goes on to point out that the embattled country is tired of the infighting, tired of the chaos and all the separate factions tugging at one another. Afganistan just wants things to be normal.

I think I'm hearing hear from most all of you that same sentiment. Let's move on and try to make positive things happen this year, shall we?

In the meantime, you people know that you can turn your concerns to us and we will listen and we will take action. That's what we're good at. We're also good at getting things done and most importantly we are strong leaders. The NLA will absolutely produce results this coming year. The NLA membership is ready, the board is ready and your new management staff is ready.

p.s. James, be careful. You incorrectly stated that by my own admission, we were in violation of by laws regarding the annual membership meeting. Read my note again. Notices for the membership meeting will go out by February 12. The show begins on March 17. By my calendar that is 32 days in advance of the first day. We are upholding the by law requirement of 30-45 days.

the show is much later this year and I had it in my head when I made the post to which you refer that it was the last week of February. Assuming the notice otherwise complies with the by-laws as to subjects of the meeting, this notice would comply. Whether the meeting will be conducted in accordance with the by-laws is another issue, since the election is not - I assume LCT disavows responsibility for the election.

You said to express our concerns and you'll listen - let's not play silly games. Scroll back and read the concerns expressed here for 18 months by me and others, and tell us what you're going to do to address them.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sara McLean:

p.s. James, be careful. You incorrectly stated that by my own admission, we were in violation of by laws regarding the annual membership meeting. Read my note again. Notices for the membership meeting will go out by February 12. The show begins on March 17. By my calendar that is 32 days in advance of the first day. We are upholding the by law requirement of 30-45 days.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

James H. Joseph
Pegasus Chauffeured Motor Cars
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
jhj@pegasus-pittsburgh.com

Apparently your comment was directed towards me concerning that I'm basically an idiot for not knowing that there is a meetining this year. Unfortunatley your experience in the forumn on Limos.com is very limited. If you look at the date in which the question was posted you will notice that it was December 22nd of 2001. At that time noone as a member knew the answer to that question. So you are the one who is wrong. SECOND! I have emailed in the past about this issue and received no answer. So the only thing I have to say to you is to NOT JUMP THE GUN and read very carefully because your comment was wrong.

In regards to LCT being the management company you are also mistaken. The consesus is not a problem with LCT being management company. So once again you jumped the gun and it's the first time you've even replied to this post. May I suggest that you go over the posts for the last two years not one as JHJ suggested and you will find out why people are upset.

TO SARAH: First I think that noone is really hounding or getting on your back. I know who you are and I know who Carolyn is as well. I honestly think that a change for the better has been made but you also have to realize that you are going to be dealing with people who have called, faxed, and e-mailed their Association over years and probably to this date have still not received an answer over issues and questions. I have spoken with Joe and he knows exactly where I stand. (By the way thank you for the answer to the question on the post)which I hope everyone will scroll down and see. http://limos.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif So anyways good luck to LCT and make us proud! http://limos.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Sarah,
In the past, Reps. of the NLA, except for Sinibaldi, have tended to stay away from this forum. I'm hoping with LCT being the management company, that will change. Out of all the places on the internet it is in my opinion that this is the medium in which thoughts and ideas are expressed industry wide. Just because a topic gets heated doesn't mean that the NLA should hide from the forum. I feel that by being involved and being able to respond will only help the NLA gain respect by showing that they are involved and that it really wants to take on issues. I find it very refreshing that you have been posting and I hope that you continue to do so in the future.

(And yes JHJ, I know you'll have a comment) http://limos.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

If the reason for Tom not posting here is because of what it is you said than I must say that is a step already in the wrong direction. This forum is up because it helps the industry. Proof of it is in the number of posts on it. If NLA simply ignores this forum than they are hurting the industry. Thousands of people view these forums and it is a shame that the NLA does not use it to it's advantage. This is the place for open discussion on the limo industry. The NLA should have official posts here because it is the write thing to do. I would love to here about elections, meetings and so forth here. But if they don't because it is politically incorrect than I must say that I'm dissapointed.

Hi Mike http://limos.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif Keep up the good work.

Wow can you smell what carolyn is cookin!! Sounds to me that you guys feel the NLA has sucked for 3 or 4 years.
Haven't heard anything good about that board forever.
So they sucked, so why does everybody bitchin still belong? Talk about dumb and dumber!!! You guys been talkin about this for 2 years, after the first year I would have changed my suit. I know these forums are so everybody can voice their opinions but come on, quit beatin on kelso, hes dead along time. JHJ quit belittling everybody the last time I looked your still in the NLA book, how smart is that. What. Oh yeah attorny's, like there all real honest and don't f*#K people up.
Sara go do what your suppose to do and do it right (keep that pretty face smilin) and Tom if you dont shape things up, well you will so I wont go there.
Carolyn make sure them counts are right. Carmela you belong in the ring, your to funny.
And tampa terror Im better then him and thats the bottom line cause I said so. Thats what the Rock is cookin.

their integrity and ethics is determined, right, Rock? - by the way, aren't you a sleaze-ball limousine operator that takes advantage of prom kids? Figure it out, dummy, my $200 per year buys me bitching rights. If I didn't belong to NLA you'd be squaking that I had no right to complain. Does anybody have anything intelligent to say here? Next.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by The Rock:
Wow can you smell what carolyn is cookin!! Sounds to me that you guys feel the NLA has sucked for 3 or 4 years.
Haven't heard anything good about that board forever.
So they sucked, so why does everybody bitchin still belong? Talk about dumb and dumber!!! You guys been talkin about this for 2 years, after the first year I would have changed my suit. I know these forums are so everybody can voice their opinions but come on, quit beatin on kelso, hes dead along time. JHJ quit belittling everybody the last time I looked your still in the NLA book, how smart is that. What. Oh yeah attorny's, like there all real honest and don't f*#K people up.
Sara go do what your suppose to do and do it right (keep that pretty face smilin) and Tom if you dont shape things up, well you will so I wont go there.
Carolyn make sure them counts are right. Carmela you belong in the ring, your to funny.
And tampa terror Im better then him and thats the bottom line cause I said so. Thats what the Rock is cookin.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

James H. Joseph
Pegasus Chauffeured Motor Cars
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
jhj@pegasus-pittsburgh.com

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sara McLean:
Hello!

(Jim) since you seem to enjoy using middle east analogies I thought you'd appreciate today's newspaper headline which read, "Afganistan Craving For Normalcy." The story goes on to point out that the embattled country is tired of the infighting, tired of the chaos and all the separate factions tugging at one another. Afganistan just wants things to be normal.

I think I'm hearing hear from most all of you that same sentiment. Let's move on and try to make positive things happen this year, shall we?

In the meantime, you people know that you can turn your concerns to us and we will listen and we will take action. That's what we're good at. We're also good at getting things done and most importantly we are strong leaders. The NLA will absolutely produce results this coming year. The NLA membership is ready, the board is ready and your new management staff is ready.

p.s. James, be careful. You incorrectly stated that by my own admission, we were in violation of by laws regarding the annual membership meeting. Read my note again. Notices for the membership meeting will go out by February 12. The show begins on March 17. By my calendar that is 32 days in advance of the first day. We are upholding the by law requirement of 30-45 days.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> The NLA was founded by giants of the industry ages ago. It would be nice to see it reach its full potential and advance the greatest Amercian profession : The Chauffeured Transportation Trade!! Success will be determined by how inclusive the NLA chooses to be with our industry. Exclusive will, I think, be deadly. Don Dailey, the long-time CAREY President uses to say " we can agreed to disagree, and still do business. A united Limousine Industry can accomplish anything. Let's see what happens.

Dean Schuler

I think that the comments on the forum should be made else where since all I did was ask a simple question. Sarah kindly answered it so and I think that there is really nothing left to say here. For people that now look at this forum and look for the answer to a simple question about a meeting they instead get a long thread of jibberish.

By the way the Rock has stopped cooking a long time ago. Find a new mentor http://limos.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I think it's good that Sara post here also, but this is just one example of the kind of conflicts that confront Sara, LCT and Tom Mazza. Tom Mazza no longer post here, because, as he explicitly pointed out, LCT has a forum which is poorly attended and he wants to juice it up. So does Sara, and especially Ty Bobit. They should post here, because this is where the action is. But will they? Not Tom. And Sara, probably only when goaded into it. Will they use their influence with NLA to try to bootstrap their own forums? Possibly. Not a day or hour will go by without similar conflicts.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Well, now that we can group the NLA and LCT into the same boat, maybe this will change and the powers at be will see that this Forum isn't about me making money, but about bringing issues in the forefront.

In 4 years, I have sucessfully sold ad space on the Limos.com forum once for a few hundred bucks...a horrible ROI. My ROI for the forum is brand recognition for Limos.com, and others that I know, tell me I am crazy for having it.

Also, I cannot recall once when a member joined our service and said "We joined Limos.com because we love your forum". I love this forum, but its also a thorn in my side because after the NLA gets it knocks, I am next in line. Sometimes it stinks getting a ball thrown in your face and its your own ball. Sometimes, I just wanna take my ball and go home.

Anyhow, If they don't want to post here it is a mistake. Maybe Tom's viewpoint on posting here will change with his new position with the NLA. Sara has posted here with infrequency, but has posted when needed, or queried.

I guess we will see if the speculated conflicts are figments of our imaginations.

Heck, I'd even entertain some sort of partnership with LCT or Digest giving them revenue and administrative rights to the Limos.com forum including their logo.

Then, the alleged forum conflicts would be eliminated, they can make their revenue and sell their ad space, and I can go off into the sunset and worry about the business at hand; Limos.com as a consumer search service and an advertising venue for limo companies.

Selling ad space is not my gig nor will it ever be.

I'd gather to estimate that 40% of Forum readers are NLA members, another 40% are considering the NLA, and overall, 80% are LCT subscribers. I know that the most frequent posters here are all LCT magazine readers, as well as LD.

I guess we will see if any of it matters.

[This message was edited by Viperion Corporation / Limos.com on January 19, 2002 at 02:10 PM.]

http://www.limousinesonline.com/proudmember.gif

Jim,

I think one of your posts was accidentally deleted - I apologize and I am not sure which it was. It had the quote below in it; please feel free to post it again. I was replying to your comments and it somehow deleted it, instead of replying.

Sorry, Michael

http://www.limousinesonline.com/proudmember.gif

in the quote - the rest was a quote to which I was replying.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Viperion Corporation / Limos.com:
Jim,

I think one of your posts was accidentally deleted - I apologize and I am not sure which it was. It had the quote below in it; please feel free to post it again. I was replying to your comments and it somehow deleted it, instead of replying.

Sorry, Michael

http://www.limousinesonline.com/proudmember.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

James H. Joseph
Pegasus Chauffeured Motor Cars
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
jhj@pegasus-pittsburgh.com

Here's the admitted problem:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Hesch, Paulie,

I am considering doing a news story on the forum for Feb or March.

As for giving pub to Forum, that's a bit of a problem. LCT has a website and web salesperson lctmag.com. We also have our own discussion forum which unfortunately has not caught on like this one.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

James H. Joseph
Pegasus Chauffeured Motor Cars
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
jhj@pegasus-pittsburgh.com

Michael if anything the forum is informative and fun, keep going they will all post sooner or later.
Hey Rock your funny you should come on more.
How about a cage match but this time we will be surrounded by limos.
The Tampa Terror

By the way my style is more like the Undertaker.

I just spent some time on the phone with Tom Mazza discussing a few things for our state organization.
I asked him if he could give some insight on how he is proceding with his NLA duties so he past on some info that I feel I can share.
He does not take effect as Executive Director until Feb 1 so somethings he can not yet comment on.
He did remind me that an executive director takes direction from the B O D's, but he will definately be giving his strong advice and opinion.
He also assured me the bylaws will be followed to a T.
He agrees with some of the comments and that the members need something of value from the NLA, he plans to use some of the suggestions like the education and training ideas.
He will also be working closer with state associations and attend as many meetings as possible.
He is getting ready to start work as soon as things are turned over to him.
I know Tommy has that infamous Italian temper but I am sure in his new position he understands that it will come with critisisum and he will have to work with it.
I know what many think and feel but I pushed for Tom to get this job because I know he always did what he could for our Florida associations, I have to give him this year. This NLA needs fixin because what Jim, myself and many have said is true but only time will tell if the new people can fix it.
The TLPA runs very well and it has even more and larger personalities then the NLA does.
So Tommy and LCT has a big job ahead of them hopefully they will succeed, if they don't it will rest on the shoulders of the new board. If they don't do whats right with people like Tom and LCT leading the way, Jim will be right and it will fold.
Good luck Tom you will need it, you have my support.