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August 15th, 2002, 02:45 PM
Hello, fairly new to the business. Why is a limo called 10 passenger but only has seat belts for 8? I have a 120 towncar that is called a 10 passenger. Does insurance allow 10 people or am I limited to 8? Same for my 165 inch thats listed as a 14 passenger? Thanks in advance.

August 16th, 2002, 05:11 AM
Ask LCT to reprint the article they had in the May 1998 edition of their excellent Magazine regarding 10 passenger Limos.

August 16th, 2002, 09:08 AM
Who and what is LCT?

August 16th, 2002, 11:43 AM
LIMOUSINE & CHAUFFEURED TRANSPORTATION, A Magazine for and about the Limousine Industry.
www.lctmag.com (http://www.lctmag.com)

September 4th, 2002, 03:21 AM
should you be counting the seatbelts in the front of the car!

www.1stlincslimo.co.uk (http://www.1stlincslimo.co.uk)

September 4th, 2002, 05:40 AM
Call Robert Haswell at Craftsmen Limousine for a different opinion on this matter 1-800-762-0447. or try Limousine Digest ( The World-Wide Industry Trade Journal ) at www.limodigest.com (http://www.limodigest.com).
Dean Schuler

September 4th, 2002, 08:23 AM
a gratuitous phrase buried in this post? Hmmmm?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bramalea Limousine Service:
Ask LCT to reprint the article they had in the May 1998 edition of their excellent Magazine regarding 10 passenger Limos.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

James H. Joseph
Pegasus Chauffeured Motor Cars
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
jhj@pegasus-pittsburgh.com

September 5th, 2002, 12:19 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by gginkc:
Hello, fairly new to the business. Why is a limo called 10 passenger but only has seat belts for 8? I have a 120 towncar that is called a 10 passenger. Does insurance allow 10 people or am I limited to 8? Same for my 165 inch thats listed as a 14 passenger? Thanks in advance.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

A limo is called a 10 passenger when it only has seat belts for 8 when an operator wants to make more money with it.

The main problem with putting 10 passengers into a limousine designed for 8 is the possibility of being sued should your vehicle somehow fail (brakes, frame, suspension/steering). QVM and CMC builders, by only allowing 8 in a 120" allow themselves to "pass the buck" to Ford and GM when problems arise. If you put 10 into a vehicle designed for 8, YOU are overloading the limo. YOU would be liable, not the coachbuilder, not Ford or GM, YOU.

Smitstix talks about the front seatbelts, actually, there are no 120" QVM Lincolns with a front passenger seat. The coachbuilders remove them. Krystal Koach's Brea factory has a pile of 2002/2003 Lincoln Towncar leather front passenger seats outside.

(interesting note: a 100" can carry more passengers than a 120" due to GVW, it doesn't need the front seat removed, therefore making it a true 10 pack, 8 + 2 up front)

BTW Dean, of course Craftsmen Limousine would have a different take on the issue, if he went around saying 200" Navigators, Excursions, Escalades, F450's, and Towncars were unsafe, he'd be shooting himself in the foot.

I don't know who made your 165" but it's not a usual length, who made it?

September 5th, 2002, 01:17 PM
in this market at least (and I suspect others), the 120" stretch is as dead as the dodo bird. These vehicles are hiring for $75 and less per hour, and at that rate the cost of amortizing the purchase price, the cost of garaging and insuring the vehicle, and mobilizing it for a hire, if you are trying to run a first class operation, doesn't work. Besides, every Tom, Dick and Harry who wants into the business can buy a 120" stretch cheap, and the market is flooded with them. We're disposing of our matched set, and will replace one with a 6-pax (for which demand is booming) and wait to replace the other in the spring when we see which way the wind is blowing. I'll take another limo-bus anytime, ours goes all the time. The QVM/non-QVM controversy has been mooted by the market, folks. This issue is a non-starter.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LA Limousines (David):
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by gginkc:
Hello, fairly new to the business. Why is a limo called 10 passenger but only has seat belts for 8? I have a 120 towncar that is called a 10 passenger. Does insurance allow 10 people or am I limited to 8? Same for my 165 inch thats listed as a 14 passenger? Thanks in advance.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

A limo is called a 10 passenger when it only has seat belts for 8 when an operator wants to make more money with it.

The main problem with putting 10 passengers into a limousine designed for 8 is the possibility of being sued should your vehicle somehow fail (brakes, frame, suspension/steering). QVM and CMC builders, by only allowing 8 in a 120" allow themselves to "pass the buck" to Ford and GM when problems arise. If you put 10 into a vehicle designed for 8, YOU are overloading the limo. YOU would be liable, not the coachbuilder, not Ford or GM, YOU.

Smitstix talks about the front seatbelts, actually, there are no 120" QVM Lincolns with a front passenger seat. The coachbuilders remove them. Krystal Koach's Brea factory has a pile of 2002/2003 Lincoln Towncar leather front passenger seats outside.

(interesting note: a 100" can carry more passengers than a 120" due to GVW, it doesn't need the front seat removed, therefore making it a true 10 pack, 8 + 2 up front)

_BTW Dean, of course Craftsmen Limousine would have a different take on the issue, if he went around saying 200" Navigators, Excursions, Escalades, F450's, and Towncars were unsafe, he'd be shooting himself in the foot. _

I don't know who made your 165" but it's not a usual length, who made it?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

James H. Joseph
Pegasus Chauffeured Motor Cars
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
jhj@pegasus-pittsburgh.com