New Limousine Laws

Currently in New Jersey, our two limousine associations have managed to meet with a lobbyist, Barry Lefkowitz and revised limousine laws. There were several points drafted which were needed such as mandatory 1.5 million liability insurance, fire extinguishers, first Aid kits, repeal of the 6% sales tax on purchases and repairs of limousines, commercial driver's license standards for limousines, mandatory ICC authority and two way communications systems.

The bill was introduced in the State Senate and signed into law. On the other hand, legislation was introduced which limits the number of passengers allowed in a limousine. The definiton of limousine now reads " a motor vehicle with the carrying capacity of not more than nine passengers, not including the driver, provided that such a motor vehicle shall not have a seating capacity in excess of four passengers, not including the driver, at time of manufacture."

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Kevin TRU Limo

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The law further states that vehicles such as the SUV type which carry more than the alotted number of passengers, must be registered with omnibus plates and be inspected by DOT. Limousines will get new plates starting 3/31/2001.
The problem herein is that the SUV limos will not pass DOT inspection because they lack the interior height requirement needed to carry more than 14 passengers. Once an operator registers an SUV under the omnibus plate and calls for an inspection, DOT will automatically red tag the vehicle.

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Kevin TRU Limo

In Summary: This is a National problem. NY State is adopting a similiar law. This will spread across the U.S.. This issue needs to be addressed immediately. Anyone who has these specialty vehicles should be aware that you could end up losing lots of money.

By the way, the QVM coachbuilders have backed the limousine associations in New Jersey and helped get this bill passed.It is apparent that there is a growing demand for larger vehicles built by non QVM builders. As the truck limos lead the path, the QVM builders are losing sales. Is anyone surprised? Give us some ideas and help on this topic.

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Kevin TRU Limo

As a member of the South Jersey Association I will tell you this, the number of passengers issue has bothered me from the start. We addressed this issue at a number of meeting when they were drafting the new legislation. Apparently, the original NJ law restrited the number of passengers to 9 in the rear compartment. The problem is for years this was never enforced, through DMV or local enforcement. This affects all compnaies with 10 pak limos. As for the SUV question, we had a number of owners from North Jersey attend our last meeting on Tuesday October 10. They came to voice their opinion regarding this issue and were very upset. The problem is, their anger is directed at the wrong people. The associations can't do anything about the law. If you are operating a SUV type limousine in NJ and you are legally plated livery then here's what I would do. 1) Join your local association. There is power in numbers. 2)Get the coachbuilder involved. I keep hearing industry safety standards, how about the coachbuilder of these SUV limos put out some kind of specs showing that the suspension, braking, etc can handle such a stretch. 3) When you registered your vehicle you payed a registration fee and sales tax to the state of NJ, you also ran the vehicle through DMV inspection, now those same people are telling you that you are now illegal. I would think you should have some recourse on that alone. I have many other problems regarding the new law because Pennsylvania and New York vehicle are stealing business from NJ owners and the new law states $1.5 million liability (not available in NY) to enter this state. Enforcement combined with some type of allowance for existing vehicles would help. Good luck
Anthony

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kevin:
Currently in New Jersey, our two limousine associations have managed to meet with a lobbyist, Barry Lefkowitz and revised limousine laws. There were several points drafted which were needed such as mandatory 1.5 million liability insurance, fire extinguishers, first Aid kits, repeal of the 6% sales tax on purchases and repairs of limousines, commercial driver's license standards for limousines, mandatory ICC authority and two way communications systems.

The bill was introduced in the State Senate and signed into law. On the other hand, legislation was introduced which limits the number of passengers allowed in a limousine. The definiton of limousine now reads " a motor vehicle with the carrying capacity of not more than nine passengers, not including the driver, provided that such a motor vehicle shall not have a seating capacity in excess of four passengers, not including the driver, at time of manufacture."

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Kevin,
I'm a little confussed about the new law (state limo permit) and the legistlation (definition of a limo). Are they one in the same?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kevin:
In Summary: This is a National problem. NY State is adopting a similiar law. This will spread across the U.S.. This issue needs to be addressed immediately. Anyone who has these specialty vehicles should be aware that you could end up losing lots of money.

By the way, the QVM coachbuilders have backed the limousine associations in New Jersey and helped get this bill passed.It is apparent that there is a growing demand for larger vehicles built by non QVM builders. As the truck limos lead the path, the QVM builders are losing sales. Is anyone surprised? Give us some ideas and help on this topic.

Kevin Contact Bob Haswell with Craftsmen Limousine in Springfield Missourri. He is well aware of some of the laws popping up around the country. He has Ford in court because they seem to be behind this law in some kind of way. Some of the "old school" operators are losing business to guys with the SUV's and it seems that they are also behind local lawmakers and city council types proposing new restricting legislation in certain areas.

Wade Randolph


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Wade Randolph

Paulie,

The newly adopted N J law redefines limousines and sets standards for licensing. Equipment mandates, driver qualifications, implementation of two way communication, insurance thresholds and passenger limitations are the topic matter. To keep it short and simple, the goal is to erradicate the SUV type limos due to the fact that they are top earners and have reduced sales for the QVM builders and operators who primarily do small stretch work. The problem is that specialty types whether SUV or vehicles such as Jaguar, Lexus, Mercedes, BMW, etc. are taking the sales first and the Lincoln models are coming in last. Typically the specialty vehicles earn two to three times as much as the conventional Lincoln model. As the specialty owners see it, the new laws and licensing are designed to illiminate us. The call for our SUV to be registered with DOT and ICC undermines our ability to earn. Without a doubt, no SUV can pass the DOT inspection; At least not in NJ. Furthermore, once DOT inspects your vehicle it will be red tagged. In summation, having a ICC requirement, US DOT or state DOT calls for a $5 million dollar insurance policy. Those Federal licenses can be revoked, especially if a company continues to violate state laws, i.e. persistent violations for being charged with operating above passenger capacity.This is a catch 22. Their goal is for us to sell off our truck limos so as to increase their profits. WRONG! We will fight through the courts and we are looking to gain national support through a Specialty Vehicle Limousine Association. For those who think specialty vehicles will go away, no chance. We will cut them smaller if we have to and they will become more exotic.

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Kevin TRU Limo

Wade,

Currently we have formed a Specialty Vehicle Limousine Association (SVLA) in NJ. Our first meeting will be held 7:00pm on Monday, October 23, 2000. We have gained support from Craftsmen, Ultra and Legendary. We intend to file suit in this matter and are looking for National support.

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Kevin TRU Limo

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kevin:
Wade,

Currently we have formed a Specialty Vehicle Limousine Association (SVLA) in NJ. Our first meeting will be held 7:00pm on Monday, October 23, 2000. We have gained support from Craftsmen, Ultra and Legendary. We intend to file suit in this matter and are looking for National support.

Kevin there is no way these guys wanting to shut down us SUV owners would ever win in federal court. How can they prove that a stretch Navigator which is built on a truck chassis is more dangerous than a stretch built on a Towncar chassis? Ford is trying to limit their liability and the established coachbuilders and getting their lunch eaten by the SUV builders.

Wade
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kevin:
Paulie,

The newly adopted N J law redefines limousines and sets standards for licensing. Equipment mandates, driver qualifications, implementation of two way communication, insurance thresholds and passenger limitations are the topic matter. To keep it short and simple, the goal is to erradicate the SUV type limos due to the fact that they are top earners and have reduced sales for the QVM builders and operators who primarily do small stretch work. The problem is that specialty types whether SUV or vehicles such as Jaguar, Lexus, Mercedes, BMW, etc. are taking the sales first and the Lincoln models are coming in last. Typically the specialty vehicles earn two to three times as much as the conventional Lincoln model. As the specialty owners see it, the new laws and licensing are designed to illiminate us. The call for our SUV to be registered with DOT and ICC undermines our ability to earn. Without a doubt, no SUV can pass the DOT inspection; At least not in NJ. Furthermore, once DOT inspects your vehicle it will be red tagged. In summation, having a ICC requirement, US DOT or state DOT calls for a $5 million dollar insurance policy. Those Federal licenses can be revoked, especially if a company continues to violate state laws, i.e. persistent violations for being charged with operating above passenger capacity.This is a catch 22. Their goal is for us to sell off our truck limos so as to increase their profits. WRONG! We will fight through the courts and we are looking to gain national support through a Specialty Vehicle Limousine Association. For those who think specialty vehicles will go away, no chance. We will cut them smaller if we have to and they will become more exotic.

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Kevin,
If I understand this correctly, your association with the help of Barry L. wrote a bill that was passed into law. This bill included among other things, passenger capacity. Yes or No?
Signed,
Paulie Walnuts

Wade,

I agree with you on this. However, the premise of our two state level limousine associations is that the SUV types were never legal to begin with and that companies did as they chose and no one ever enforced the law. The associations here have made it a point to rewrite the law, educate schools, police, courts and the public at large regarding the new laws. Safety was never an issue in the new statues. The standard used, however was adopted by Ford and Cadillac through their QVM and CVM standards. Sounds like collusion here. Our position is that these vehicles are both widely accepted and have been tacitly approved over the last 10 years. I would think that a "squatters right" type of position could be used here. keep in mind, lawyers can find the "gray areas" in law that the layman will never see. The design and implementation of the new law was done hastily and with a black and white frame of mind. The rest is up to the courts.

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Kevin TRU Limo

Paulie,

To correct you, my association is not the SJLA (South Jersey Limousine Association) or the NJLA (North Jersey Limousine Association). Mine is with a newly formed body, the SVLA (Specialty Vehicle Limousine Association) which is just getting off ground. We will be looking for National support and we will probably be all joining the NLA.

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Kevin TRU Limo

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kevin:
Paulie,

To correct you, my association is not the SJLA (South Jersey Limousine Association) or the NJLA (North Jersey Limousine Association). Mine is with a newly formed body, the SVLA (Specialty Vehicle Limousine Association) which is just getting off ground. We will be looking for National support and we will probably be all joining the NLA.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

OK, let me re-phrase my question to any one reading.

The Jersy Associations, with the help of Barry L. wrote this bill? Part of the bill included maximum passenger capacity (9)?

Are there any SUV operators out thier that are members of the Jersy Assoc? If so how could they let this happen? Also, Kevin why did'nt you and the other SUV operators join the NLA, ITLA, or ALA and the Jersy Association as soon as you started your companies?

This is a perfect example of an operators need to be involved in his/her industry.

The number of limousine companies that are members of local and/or national associations is terrible. The NLA has only about 1500 members, yet there is anywhere from 10,000 15,000 companies in the US. Local associations usually only make up about 15% of the operators in that area.

Kevin, we had a similiar situation in FLorida. For the last two years we have defeated a bill for a state permit. Among other problems with the bill, one section delt with maximum vehicle weight. This section would have pushed our members who have SUVs into either DOT regulation or limbo.
Good Luck,
Paulie

Paulie,

You hit the nail on the head. In NJ only one member has a specialty vehicle. Out of 2000 companies in the state, less than 100 are members. What I am currently doing is spreading the news and getting these members to join associations so we can prevent this from happening again.
For the most part, no one ever complained about the fees. The complaint was always that the associations are bull and the members gossip about one another more than anything else. To our surprise, the lolly gagging members were actually getting lots done. With the egg on our faces, we have learned from that mistake and are attemting to rectify it by starting with membership in mass numbers which is set to begin this Monday, October 23, 2000 @ 7:00pm. For any members interested, the meeting will be held at Alexis Steak House, Route 22 East, Mountanside, NJ. All operators welcome.

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Kevin TRU Limo

I have driven trucks, buses, Limos and am now wanting to start a service here in southern Oklahoma. Since most of the people here go to the airport in Texas, I have to cross the state line. In doing this, I have come under the direction of the U.S.DOT, and they have laws concerning the crossing of state lines with paying passengers. First you have to have your DOT numbers, which are easy to get, you can apply for them over the internet. second, you have to have 1.5 mil insurance because the feds say so. As far as the DOT inspection, it is no different than a state inspection, but you do ahve to ahve a sign on your car that is readable and tells your name and the town and state you are from.

This is for cars with less than 15 passengers, more than that and you have to have 5 mil. insurance to legally cross a state line as this falls under the same laws as buses. Federal laws are not state laws, and around here, you better have your fed laws in effect because I can't find out anything about Oklahoma laws except they tell me to make sure I have all my paper work done as required by the DOT.

I am in a town of under 30,000, as far as corporate work, we ahve only a couple of large companies here and both of them have their own jets sitting at the local airport. I am not sure how the business will go but I am willing to give it a shot. By the way, my uncle, Bud Scott used to have VIP in Beverly Hills and I learned a lot from him before he passed away. It is sad his son stepped in and stopped everything and kept me from finding anythng else out but he was not in the business, he just wanted to get what he could by selling everything as soon as possible.

One thing I have not had much luck at is finding out what is needed at the DFW airport or Will Rogers in OKC as far as permits or anything else.

I do like this forum and excuse me for being long winded, has to do with my being a Minister also.

Yes, I am a newly elected board member to the SJLA. The limousine law that was paased last year was drafted in a cooperation with the North Jersey and South Jersey association with the Department of Motor Vehicles and Department of Transportation. Even though they were open to new additons to the law (i.e. fire extinguisher, first aid, etc.) They were not willing to move on the existing passenger limit on limousines. 10 passenger limousines were never legal in the state of NJ under the existing law. However, The new law states a limousine capacity is 4 more than the manufacturer capacity at productions. So, yes an 8 passenger Navigator at production can legally carry 12 passengers including the driver when stretched. It does not limit the stretch lenghth nor does it mention anything regarding QVM-non QVM. By the way, the 6% sales tax repeal was not part of the law passed last year. We recently fought and won that battle this past June. We fight for everyone in business in this state whether you contribute or not. You have every right to state your opinion as we welcome suggestions, please get the facts right though.
Anthony