rolls royce phantom

[california]

i'm wondering if anyone owns a phantom or a bentley model that that is used with a chauffeur. is there a market for these cars and if so, how much would you charge?

would it be too risky of an investment?

[Skerdian]

Average hourly rate goes from around $350-$550 an hour. The only people I know who handle those high end vehicles are contracted by certain hotels only to do jobs at the hotel's request, they even have to put the hotel logo on the side of their cars.

A more viable option would be a white phantom to handle weddings, if your area has a well to do population range, meaning they can afford $1500 for 3 hours for such a vehicle for their wedding, then you can purchase a slightly used phantom for around $230k, and if your doing 2-3 weddings with it a month, then you should be ok.
I think? lol

[First Class Limos]

I have thought about this. I think in NYC or LA you might be able to pull it off. I was thinking about one for one of my personal cars, but my lifestyle is that kind of standard (I've had lamborghinis, vipers, hummers, ferraris before) and to rent it out and maybe pay the whole payment or close to it, and have a Rolls Royce for free. I currently do this now with my 08 H2 unstretched. I don't see it making money though unless you can rent it out alot in a major major city, I still think it would be hard. If you want it as one of your cars (not your main car, you would rack up too many miles) its possible, but I don't think it would make alot of money because the payments would be so high. You could buy 3-5 25 passenger hummer limos for the same price, or a whole fleet of sedans, those would definately make alot of money.

I do know one company who has them in NYC that they rent them from the actual owner of the car (they don't own it) and say the rental is $1500 they give them $1000 and keep $500 for their fee.

Another choice would be the Bentley Continental Flying Spur, although not as popular as the "Rolls Royce" name for weddings, its half the price, and when people who are looking for that can't find a Rolls tahts not 30 years old for rent they would probably go with the Bentley.

[california]

Originally posted by First Class Limos:
I have thought about this. I think in NYC or LA you might be able to pull it off. I was thinking about one for one of my personal cars, but my lifestyle is that kind of standard (I've had lamborghinis, vipers, hummers, ferraris before) and to rent it out and maybe pay the whole payment or close to it, and have a Rolls Royce for free. I currently do this now with my 08 H2 unstretched. I don't see it making money though unless you can rent it out alot in a major major city, I still think it would be hard. If you want it as one of your cars (not your main car, you would rack up too many miles) its possible, but I don't think it would make alot of money because the payments would be so high. You could buy 3-5 25 passenger hummer limos for the same price, or a whole fleet of sedans, those would definately make alot of money.

I do know one company who has them in NYC that they rent them from the actual owner of the car (they don't own it) and say the rental is $1500 they give them $1000 and keep $500 for their fee.

Another choice would be the Bentley Continental Flying Spur, although not as popular as the "Rolls Royce" name for weddings, its half the price, and when people who are looking for that can't find a Rolls tahts not 30 years old for rent they would probably go with the Bentley.

so if i were to go for the flying spur, which can be purchased for around 130k used, do you think it would be a good investment. i'm thinking weddings, proms, airport, dinner dates, birthdays, etc.

keep in mind, this car would be driven by myself on all occasions, unless i have to hire someone else.

[Skerdian]

Originally posted by california:
so if i were to go for the flying spur, which can be purchased for around 130k used, do you think it would be a good investment. i'm thinking weddings, proms, airport, dinner dates, birthdays, etc.

keep in mind, this car would be driven by myself on all occasions, unless i have to hire someone else.

Well, do many people request bentleys for weddings? I wouldnt go for it. Its basically a hooked up Audi A8L. Spend some more on the phantom and get paid better. Im looking into it for Spring 2009. Best of luck, California.

[First Class Limos]

Like I said, it all about what you think the value is on the price. You can get 2 benley's for the price of 1 phantom. You can get 3-5 hummer limos for the price of 1 pantom. You can get 10 sedans for the price of 1 phantom. What will make the most amount of money? Out of those choices its neither the phantom or the bentley. The bentley payment will be half as much, but most people want a rolls. But how many people really have phantoms to rent out? Slim to none. Either the bentley or the rolls I don't think will be a "money maker" I think it will be a "payment payer" where you would have it for free, or "almost" free. Don't buy it as a money maker, if you were to buy one, get it as one of your cars, and "hope" to pay the payment. Also get the color white for weddings.

Btw if any of you are interested my personal page / car collection can be seen at www.pteam.net/cars.html (http://www.pteam.net/cars.html) so I feel like I kinda know what I'm talking about http://limos.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[california]

Originally posted by First Class Limos:
Like I said, it all about what you think the value is on the price. You can get 2 benley's for the price of 1 phantom. You can get 3-5 hummer limos for the price of 1 pantom. You can get 10 sedans for the price of 1 phantom. What will make the most amount of money? Out of those choices its neither the phantom or the bentley. The bentley payment will be half as much, but most people want a rolls. But how many people really have phantoms to rent out? Slim to none. Either the bentley or the rolls I don't think will be a "money maker" I think it will be a "payment payer" where you would have it for free, or "almost" free. Don't buy it as a money maker, if you were to buy one, get it as one of your cars, and "hope" to pay the payment. Also get the color white for weddings.

Btw if any of you are interested my personal page / car collection can be seen at www.pteam.net/cars.html (http://www.pteam.net/cars.html) so I feel like I kinda know what I'm talking about http://limos.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

i hear you and you do have some good points. what makes me optimistic is that i'm the the bay area, san francisco to be exact and there are no companies renting out bentleys.

i dont want a payment payer, i'd like to see a return on my investment. you've got me thinking

[nylimotales.com]

The company I drive for in the Tri-State New York area has both a Bentley Continental Flying Spur (Black) and a Rolls Royce Phantom (cream).

The Bentley is used for high end nights on the town and is occaisionally requested for weddings.

The Rolls has a complimentary colored 10 passenger Chrysler 300 and both are usually book solid through the wedding season.

Rolls: $1,500 3 hr min

I'ts a serious investment, but you have to look at your market and give it a few years for the word to get out.

If not there's always ebay to recoup your investment.

Good Luck

[Greenpala]

Well, we rent out RR Phantom a lot (we get them from somone else) right here in NYC. Let me tell you, about a year ago there was only 2 major player that were renting these cars out. Everybody used their cars. These guys were charging $600/hr and they made good money. Right now there are 6 big players with these cars. And every one of them wants work for it and price dropped to $350 so they can just move that car.

If you are the first one in your town and you let every other limo company around your area know that you have one - they will give you work. Question you should ask yourself - do you have a market for a Phantom?

Bentley - well, nobody asks about that. Everybody goes towards the Maybach or Phantom. You can pickup a Maybach now for $140K I heard.

[Tom Mazza]

I did Chauffeur Training for large LA company about 18 months ago and they had 3 Phantoms. Rental was for 5 hour minimum, net net on 5 hours was $2510. I looked at a months worth of charter work for the Phantoms and large percentage of passengers were Entertainment industry people, maybe 80 percent. I completely agree that it would be a NYC, LA thing. For the new people, I would strongly diagree with anyone who makes a blanket statement and says "Don't buy this type (ANY) vehicle" You have to spend money and do real market research to determine what anyone will purchase.

[california]

Originally posted by Tom Mazza:
I did Chauffeur Training for large LA company about 18 months ago and they had 3 Phantoms. Rental was for 5 hour minimum, net net on 5 hours was $2510. I looked at a months worth of charter work for the Phantoms and large percentage of passengers were Entertainment industry people, maybe 80 percent. I completely agree that it would be a NYC, LA thing. For the new people, I would strongly diagree with anyone who makes a blanket statement and says "Don't buy this type (ANY) vehicle" You have to spend money and do real market research to determine what anyone will purchase.

i'm almost certain that i will start with a bentley flying spur. ive done some homework and i think i'll do fine in my area. i do know that marketing will play a big role.

[Skerdian]

White flying spur?

Really nice car, but why not pay another 60-70k to get a phantom? The car is (i believe) in higher demand and you can charge more. I think you might lose potential wedding clients if you go with the Bentley. A black flying spur is great for high end corporate and celebrities, but can you get reservations for it? People have a hard time getting a mercedes over a town car now a days.

[First Class Limos]

There are bentley contintental GT's on dupont registry for 99k, the flying spur can be had for as low as 125k. The cheapest rolls is 200k. For another 75-100k you can buy 5-10 other towncar sedans and have a fleet.

[california]

Originally posted by Skerdian:
White flying spur?

Really nice car, but why not pay another 60-70k to get a phantom? The car is (i believe) in higher demand and you can charge more. I think you might lose potential wedding clients if you go with the Bentley. A black flying spur is great for high end corporate and celebrities, but can you get reservations for it? People have a hard time getting a mercedes over a town car now a days.

i hear you, but i dont have a partner and the rolls would be too much to start with. i can manage 130k, but not 200.

[Skerdian]

If this is your first car in your new business endeavor, I'd say stick to a Mercedes first (if not a town car or SUV) then move your way up. It might not be so easy to reserve a 100k + car often enough to pay the bills, let alone make a profit.

[Dave M]

Originally posted by Tom Mazza:
I did Chauffeur Training for large LA company about 18 months ago and they had 3 Phantoms. Rental was for 5 hour minimum, net net on 5 hours was $2510. I looked at a months worth of charter work for the Phantoms and large percentage of passengers were Entertainment industry people, maybe 80 percent. I completely agree that it would be a NYC, LA thing. For the new people, I would strongly diagree with anyone who makes a blanket statement and says "Don't buy this type (ANY) vehicle" You have to spend money and do real market research to determine what anyone will purchase.


The three Phatoms Tom alludes to were purchased in order to acquire large hotel accounts. With these accounts came the clientele who wanted to rent these cars.

Even with this built-in client base, the phantoms can have very slow months. Awards season and summer are very profitable, but at other times these vehicles are simply loss leaders for their respective accounts.

Maintenance is another issue. Many parts are one-of-a-kind, very expensive, and in limited supply. This isn't an ideal situation for a car service. If you break down, you have to use a Rolls Royce certified tow service. If you need to replace a tire, a used one costs $900 if you're lucky enough to find one. If you damage a wheel, a replacement requires a special order from England. Due to these constraints, every maintenance problem becomes a headache.

As stated in previous posts, a Phantom carries a very high risk to reward ratio. This car can certainly turn a profit, but do you really want to take on this liability when better options are available?

Good Luck

Dave

[california]

Originally posted by Skerdian:
If this is your first car in your new business endeavor, I'd say stick to a Mercedes first (if not a town car or SUV) then move your way up. It might not be so easy to reserve a 100k + car often enough to pay the bills, let alone make a profit.

what kind of Mercedes and why? keep in mind i'm trying to offer a vehicle(s) that will sell itself

[Skerdian]

2007 or 2008 S550. Car is more or less 100k but you will probably have more job volume than a phantom or flying spur.

[california]

Originally posted by Skerdian:
2007 or 2008 S550. Car is more or less 100k but you will probably have more job volume than a phantom or flying spur.

is job volume the result of the vehicle or the price. or a combination of both. with the mercedes, there are several companies offering various models. how do i separate myself from the others.

by the way, i really appreciate all your advice

[Greenpala]

Originally posted by california:
there are several companies offering various models. how do i separate myself from the others.

Well, offer something extra what others dont. Also, if you buy a car, get something like Massaging seats in the back, or reclining seats, Panorama roof, side shades, or get AMG package.
Offer Refreshments with every ride (small bottle of water), maybe free meet and greet, discounts on round trips, TV inside, DVD inside, Satellite TV from a Laptop. There are many ideas.

I know that Carey installed Satellite radios in every TC.

[Skerdian]

California,

There isnt much you can do to set yourself MUCH more than any other service provider. Like Mark said, if you get a mercedes, get options that would cater to the passenger such as the reclining seats and water. But in all, your real method of competition has to be service. Your car always has to be impeccably clean, latest model, and problem free. Also, depends where you are marketing. Many midwest companies can get away with older model vehicles because their competition has the same array of cars. You can buy an expensive rolls or bentley and there is a nice niche market for it, but again depends who you are marketing to.

In my area, competition is very high (highest in the world probably- nyc), so everyone who's prices are in the same bracket as mine have brand new cars, best services, etc. Example, I had a subwoofer defect in my BMW and it mad a very slight buzzing noise in the back. The customer complained and I quickly removed the whole audio fuse. If I just acted as if there isnt much I can do about it, he would probably have never called me again because there is always someone else, and usually for cheaper too. Try to find clientele who when you charge for example $5,000 invoice, they send you $7,000 because they valued your service. Those are real limo clients, not the ones who bag the soda and complain about the price.

[Dean Schuler]

In the 1980's it is true that I had better limousines than my competition. But that is never enough-you have to develop a service philosophy that is superior to succeed. I agree with Tommy on this subject. In 1983, my competitors all said a stretch could not function if it was over 50" . I knew in my gut that they were smoking something funny and I went out and purchased a 73" stretch. It is the niche you wish to service that is important-not the advice from folks who tell you not to buy a certain vehicle type.
Originally posted by Tom Mazza:
I did Chauffeur Training for large LA company about 18 months ago and they had 3 Phantoms. Rental was for 5 hour minimum, net net on 5 hours was $2510. I looked at a months worth of charter work for the Phantoms and large percentage of passengers were Entertainment industry people, maybe 80 percent. I completely agree that it would be a NYC, LA thing. For the new people, I would strongly diagree with anyone who makes a blanket statement and says "Don't buy this type (ANY) vehicle" You have to spend money and do real market research to determine what anyone will purchase.

[Dave M]

No matter the vehicle, you're going to be marketing to the affluent. This is a process within itself. These accounts are a challenge and typically difficult to acquire - but not impossible.

The thing to remember is the affluent consume the same media but use different goods and services. As limo company, this means you acquire the accounts for the individuals who provide services to the affluent.

For example, if I wanted a major music artist, I would target bodyguards, agents, publicists, road managers, event companies, and specialty travel agencies. These type of accounts open the door and grant access to the big fish. This takes time, but a single account can make it worthwhile. Once you acquire the personal account, you can go after the touring account. After you get the touring and personal account, you can take a piece of the label account.

In addition to targeting service providers, I would do the following:

1. Become the house car at a Five Diamond Hotel. At a few of the major hotels such as the Peninsula, the house account is separate from the limousine account. In the case of the Penensula, Lexus provides LS 460's for marketing purposes. If you acquire one of these accounts, put an all-star behind the wheel who can up sell the vehicle. Just a few runs a week will net a healthy profit.

2. Test market a website. Create a website named "San Francisco Rolls Royce Limousine." After this, buy a URL with the same name and get some links. This is such a rare phrase, you're going to be in the top ten of Google. If the design and marketing are of high quality, you should get an idea about the demand.

3. Create an exotic rental car agency. If you push forward with the Phantom, get a second DBA and create a rental agency. Build a separate marketing campaign and brand identity for this business. In Los Angeles, these type of agencies are very successful. If you can't make it as a chauffeured service, rent it out.

4. Build affiliate relationships with other high end limousine companies in your area. This one is self explanatory. It may take a village to rent a Phantom.


Dave