NLA

Does anyone know this turkey Ron Sorci who sits on the Board of NLA? Dean - what about you? In the event my use of the term "turkey" doesn't express my feelings, I find him all "pomp" and no "circumstance."

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jhj:
Does anyone know this turkey Ron Sorci who sits on the Board of NLA? Dean - what about you? In the event my use of the term "turkey" doesn't express my feelings, I find him all "pomp" and no "circumstance." <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Call Jan Korkames of the Limousine Industry Council at 1-214-327-6616, she may have some info. Sincerely, Dean Schuler

What are the specifics of your interaction? What happened for you to come to a judgment like this about this person? (I am not defending anyone; I have never met or spoke with the gentleman.)

Michael

I exchanged communications with Greg Casteel at Pinnacle Performance concerning problems with NLA as to the CTCP (as discussed elsewhere in this forum). Greg faxed a copy to Ron Sorci who apparently was made chairman or vice-chairman of the committe formed to seal with the CTCP. Sorci sent a reply to Casteel which was officious, vacuous, offensive, pompous and obviously written by someone who is impressed with his position - in other words, a perfect candidate to serve on the NLA board and head up a committee. By the way, as a follow up to prior posts, after over 3 weeks of trying to get an answer to simple questions about the CTCP from NLA, we still have had no substantive communications. We are preparing to go a different route. Instead of a proprietary program operated by NLA for the benefit of a few (mostly the limo establishment), we're considering putting a IOS 9000 quality program in place in our company for not only chauffeurs, but the whoe company, and gaining international certification in that manner. It's more expensive and rigorous, but corporate customers all recognize ISO 9000 certification and we can avoid dealing with the amateurs at NLA.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jhj:
I exchanged communications with Greg Casteel at Pinnacle Performance concerning problems with NLA as to the CTCP (as discussed elsewhere in this forum). Greg faxed a copy to Ron Sorci who apparently was made chairman or vice-chairman of the committe formed to seal with the CTCP. Sorci sent a reply to Casteel which was officious, vacuous, offensive, pompous and obviously written by someone who is impressed with his position - in other words, a perfect candidate to serve on the NLA board and head up a committee. By the way, as a follow up to prior posts, after over 3 weeks of trying to get an answer to simple questions about the CTCP from NLA, we still have had no substantive communications. We are preparing to go a different route. Instead of a proprietary program operated by NLA for the benefit of a few (mostly the limo establishment), we're considering putting a IOS 9000 quality program in place in our company for not only chauffeurs, but the whoe company, and gaining international certification in that manner. It's more expensive and rigorous, but corporate customers all recognize ISO 9000 certification and we can avoid dealing with the amateurs at NLA. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

In the south we call amateurs " short-timers, and/or " civilians ". Sincerely, Dean Schuler

First of all the whole certification thing was to make somebody money, not for the sake of the industry. Why does Hartford give their program for free? How many people know that Greg Casteel was President of the NLA when he signed the contract for Pinnacle, (how come the NLA board members did not view this as a conflict). Why were a group of operators pushed off when it was questioned?
Why would one Limo magazine have the nads to print what was really happening when the other stopped there writters.Why are networks like Dav El, Boston Coach, Empire and Elegant International not part of this program? Carey is the only one!When Limo Associations around the U S united and put heat on the NLA they had to do something, so now "Greg Casteel has given this program to the NLA for Free" yea right. The NLA needs a board with balls that will really look out for all operators not just the large ones like Carey. If the NLA wants to help the little guy's find out and help operators that have problems with Coach builders (QVM to) and leasing companies that are raping the operators. Quit costing operators money and do something to help.

Ragu,

Who are you? You by chance wouldn't be in the "sunshine" state would ya?

Michael

It was good to see someone pick up the thread. I thought this topic was getting too "hot" for people to touch.
By the way, as an update, as of this post we still have no substantive response from NLA on what to do with certification materials. I have several interesting letters exchanged between me and Ron Casteel where he reacts badly to my accusation that he "dumped" the CTCP on NLA (which he did, but nonetheless denies), and another letter from Ron Sorci (co-chair of the NLA "certification committee") demonstrating that he is totally out of touch with NLA's incompetence (and also conclusively establishing that he is an a**h**e).

Dean <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jhj:
It was good to see someone pick up the thread. I thought this topic was getting too "hot" for people to touch.
By the way, as an update, as of this post we still have no substantive response from NLA on what to do with certification materials. I have several interesting letters exchanged between me and Ron Casteel where he reacts badly to my accusation that he "dumped" the CTCP on NLA (which he did, but nonetheless denies), and another letter from Ron Sorci (co-chair of the NLA "certification committee") demonstrating that he is totally out of touch with NLA's incompetence (and also conclusively establishing that he is an a**h**e).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Call Alan Fisher of London Livery in New Orleans-he founded the National Limousine Association. His number is 504-586-0700.

Dean <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jhj:
Does anyone know this turkey Ron Sorci who sits on the Board of NLA? Dean - what about you? In the event my use of the term "turkey" doesn't express my feelings, I find him all "pomp" and no "circumstance." <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
He used to be CFO of Carey years ago. I don't know how well he has done with Precept. He replaced me on the Board when I resigned. I just couldn't take those people anymore. Sincerely, Dean Schuler

Sorci's letter was truly appalling in its arrogance, especially consiodering that, as near as I can determine, he has nothing to be arrogant about. Casteel, on the other hand, is a real politician. He mouths great concern for the industry and the value of NLA, which I suppose I would also if I had ridden that gravy-train for as long as others have. I think what we need is for a group of companies to get together and decide what the industry needs in the way of a trade association, formulates a written business plan to submit to the industry, secures an experienced association executive, locates in the Washington, DC area where trade associations belong when the industry is as highly regulated as transportation, and then get on with it. The thing we have to remember is that any organization becomes the captive of those who participate and are willing to work (even to their own advantage), and as long as the great masses of companies fail to join or play a part, any association will fall prey to predators. We could change NLA, but control of the board and the officers lies with the nominating committee, and that committee does nothing except self-perpetuate a small group. There is not even a way for someone from the outside to get on the ballot to stand election as a director by petition and signatures of a certain number of members. The ONLY way on to the board is through the nominating committee, otherwise known as a "mutual admiration society." In short, there is no way to refom NLA from within. I would guess the "founder" bears responsibility for this lack of democracy, since he enacted the by-laws.

In reviewing some of the comments in this forum, the only thing I can say is that I agree. I have been in the limousine business for approximately 9 years. Of that 9 years I avoided joining the NLA for 8 and 1/2 years. Fortunately or unfortunately, I joined to meet local competition that was using the NLA as a marketing tool. Throughout those 8 1/2 years I was torn between wanting to support a national organization that our industry deperately needs and joining an organization that overall delivered nothing. Everytime I would start to join, I would review the NLA initiatives:
1. Independent operator and the IRS - a failure.
2. Gas Guzzler - a failure
3. Certification - many problems as outlined in the forum
4. And probably the worst one - not knowing what the Dept of Transportation was doing with new legislation until after it was passed. This is probably the worst thing for a national organization.
We need the NLA - but it sure has to get better.

I think the most remarkable thing about the threads in this forum and the other where this subject is being discussed is that NOT ONE NLA member has come forward to suggest that they have had anything but a bad experience with NLA, except perhaps, inferentially, those who feather their own bed through NLA. It's too bad the limousine industry is so technologically retarded for these forums would stop their membership drive dead in its tracks. That would hit the former "gold-mining" folks where they live.

JHJ
I've been wanting to say that for some time now. Why has not one person in the NLA responded to one comment made in any of these forums. I guess that proves the point that the NLA doesn't really care about the industry. All they care about is how many members they can gain to fatten up their pockets. OR maybe they don't know how to use a computer?

During the NLA board meeting in Vancouver BC.
We voted on a complete and I mean a complete upgrade of the NLA web page and internet access. The page is under construction now.

John

------------------

Reference my previous comments in reference to the NLA - didn't quite finish my thoughts - had to go rescue a limousine in distress (as we all have done at some point).
There is another player in town that is starting to make its presence felt in the limousine arena - its the ITLA. I recently joined that association and to date have been impressed. They have a separate division that addresses the needs of the limousine industry. After joining, I received more information than I anticipated not just a newsletter like the NLA. Legislative alerts are mailed out, news letters, general information bulletins that address the needs and questions that arise out of running a business not just a limousine business. To my knowledge they have their own staff, are well funded and call their own shots. Might be an alternative for those that are unhappy with the NLA but still want to belong to a national industry based organization. And no I am not a recruiter for the ITLA - just a guy in the limousine business trying to get by.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hesch:
Reference my previous comments in reference to the NLA - didn't quite finish my thoughts - had to go rescue a limousine in distress (as we all have done at some point).
There is another player in town that is starting to make its presence felt in the limousine arena - its the ITLA. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

We, too, have noted the presence of ITLA. It's web site is very well developed and gives a pretty complete picture of what they do. It is very heavily taxi, but it also seems that the limo division is out in front of NLA. Limo folks just have the hair on the back of their necks go up when "limo" and "taxi" are uttered in the same breath, and that's hard to deal with, but it looks like ITLA does, indeed, have something to offer. Keep us posted on what you get from ITLA and how you like it. Not the same as "our own" association, but it may offer a good alternative.

I'm glad to see the ITLA has become a topic. I think we should all be clearly aware, however, of who the ITLA is and what they are attempting to do.

The limousine industry has for several years been working very hard on HR 1689 in the US Congress. Mr Barry Lefkowitz of MGR has been working very very hard on that bill. And one day before the bill was scheduled to be presented, the ITLA interrupted the process.

The ITLA represents primarily the large taxi companies who are controlled by the few large company owners. Those owners are also the same ones who control local geography through local regulations in many states. Regulations which limit the number of permits issued and assures their success.

I would encourage all to recall the story of Little Red Riding Hood when considering the ITLA.

1. What is the ITLA?
A very successful, national and international
industry based (originally taxi but now expanding into limousine and para-transit)organization that is politically
powerful that appears to defend its membership. Like I said previously, I just recently joined, but if they can do for the limousine industry what they have done for the taxi industry, its O.K. by me. I don't know why the word "taxi" is a dirty word. In our market, the limousine industry and the taxi industry work very well together. We support each other when appropriate and agree to disagree when necessary.
2. HR 1689
I don't know why the ITLA interupted or disagreed with the NLA's lobbying effort - maybe they felt it wasn't in the best interest of their members. Maybe we should ask an ITLA member/executive to respond.
Anyway, isn't HR1689 a dead issue since the agreements that have occurred in the New York area and the legislation that was passed in New Jersey?
3. If you read many of the previous comments, you can make the same statement about the NLA being controlled by the large companies as you make about the ITLA.
I don't know if the ITLA is good or bad. I do know it is fresh information, a new viewpoint, a powerful organization that states it wants to help my industry. Time will tell if it is a wolf in sheeps clothing or if it is really a benefit to our industry. It won't take long to find out.

I did receive a letter that all certifications will happen through the office of Linda Bouland. Her e-mail is Linda.Bouland@hostcommunications.com. Phone: 859-226-4377. Perhaps this is where the questions can be answered.

I tend to feel that the NLA has taken on too much and will be unable to serve members to much benefit.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jhj:
It was good to see someone pick up the thread. I thought this topic was getting too "hot" for people to touch.
By the way, as an update, as of this post we still have no substantive response from NLA on what to do with certification materials. I have several interesting letters exchanged between me and Ron Casteel where he reacts badly to my accusation that he "dumped" the CTCP on NLA (which he did, but nonetheless denies), and another letter from Ron Sorci (co-chair of the NLA "certification committee") demonstrating that he is totally out of touch with NLA's incompetence (and also conclusively establishing that he is an a**h**e).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

------------------
Betty Taylor
Taylor Transportation
Dallas, Texas

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Betty Taylor:
I did receive a letter that all certifications will happen through the office of Linda Bouland. Her e-mail is Linda.Bouland@hostcommunications.com. Phone: 859-226-4377. Perhaps this is where the questions can be answered.

I tend to feel that the NLA has taken on too much and will be unable to serve members to much benefit.


<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nice thought, but Linda does not rfespond to e-mail and had not the first clue how the certification program operates. She passes the buck to someone else who also doesn't return e-mail or telephone calls. The certification program is history, anyhow.

My company was approached about 20 months ago or so to spearhead the design & development of NLA website.

I think many would agree, this would have been a good investment. Our projects are always first class and we answer email every hour. We have been told that LIMOS.com and its affiliate sites are the best limousine related websites operating today, in terms of design, ease of use, and function.

I submitted an estimate of charges which was substantially below market rates and was never told that status of that request, despite following up with them.

I assume that the project was never completed seeing I get broken links, database errors, and a variety of other visual blunders.

I think HOST is redoing it now, although, a look at their other sites tells me this won't be much of an improvement either.

[This message has been edited by XENEFOX Media Corporation (edited 08-23-2000).]

Michael -
Not surprising, as it appears that NLA only does something when there's someone that they want to benefit from it. Apparently, you were not in that category. Notice that John Sinibaldi dropped out of the discussion as soon as it was pointed out that Host Interactive was a captive of Host Communications, and when I asked how many presentations were made before the web site project was awarded to Host. I think the directors are circling the wagon because as of now only they know how much self-dealing is really going on - but it won't stay hidden forever.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jhj:
Michael -
Not surprising, as it appears that NLA only does something when there's someone that they want to benefit from it. Apparently, you were not in that category. Notice that John Sinibaldi dropped out of the discussion as soon as it was pointed out that Host Interactive was a captive of Host Communications, and when I asked how many presentations were made before the web site project was awarded to Host. I think the directors are circling the wagon because as of now only they know how much self-dealing is really going on - but it won't stay hidden forever. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi Jim

I didn't drop out. Don't know about you, but I do have a two business to run plus a great six year son. The web page is coming along fine. Mr. Taylor who has been bashed, was donating his time during his tenure of hosting the site. We paid "NADA" buy as the saying goes "You get what you pay for" After the presentation, I feel confident that the new web page will look great. You seem to spend alot of time in the forum. Do you have time to run your business? or time with your family? I plan on checking in on the forum on a nightly basis.

Just a few notes about efforts in Washington:

HR 1689 - Not Dead ! It's moving and will likely be on the floor in Sept or Oct. More key members in Congress are joining on as co sponsors.

Gas Guzzler - Not Dead ! Support is continuing to grow among Congressional members, many of whom have provide written support to repeal that tax.

Hours of Service Rules Change - Dead for now. Congress voted to eliminate funding the USDOT would need to impliment any rules change. No money ... no rules change.

Overtime Wage - Many in Congress have sent letters to the US Dept of Labor regarding this issue. Congress is on our side and wants to help. Keep the faith all.

That's news is a flash.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by fivestaroregon:
Hi Jim

I didn't drop out. Don't know about you, but I do have a two business to run plus a great six year son. The web page is coming along fine. Mr. Taylor who has been bashed, was donating his time during his tenure of hosting the site. We paid "NADA" but as the saying goes "You get what you pay for." After the presentation, I feel confident that the new web page will look great. You seem to spend alot of time in the forum. Do you have time to run your business? or time with your family? I plan on checking in on the forum on a nightly basis. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If it takes more than two minutes to log into the forums, read new posts and make any replies, one must be very challenged at reading, or writing, or both. My computer is connected to the net 24/7, our whole company is built around our network, we get 1/2 of our reservations by e-mail, my law practice keeps me on the computer most of the day, and I have a 12 year old son who I spend time with every day and an elderly mother who needs attended to and her financial affairs taken care of, as well as my own. Now, I think the original question was (as yeat unaswered) - how many presentations did the NLA directors get before contracting with Host? And by the way, in addition to practicing law, I have several businesses to run, one of which is a limousine company. There seems to be a common thread in these forums - and that is the mindset that because people are volunteers, or work for NADA, as you put it, that they are somehow sacred cows who are beyond criticism, and that they have the right to do whatever they want. Why does this theme keep popping up repeatedly? Kirk Taylor's work speaks for itself. Apparently you justify a dismal web site because it was free - more likely Taylor got trapped into keeping the web site up because no one at NLA could bring themselves to make a decision to do anything different. You are right, you get what you pay for, and it sounds more and more like that applies to "volunteer" directors as well.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jhj:
If it takes more than two minutes to log into the forums, read new posts and make any replies, one must be very challenged at reading, or writing, or both. My computer is connected to the net 24/7, our whole company is built around our network, we get 1/2 of our reservations by e-mail, my law practice keeps me on the computer most of the day, and I have a 12 year old son who I spend time with every day and an elderly mother who needs attended to and her financial affairs taken care of, as well as my own. Now, I think the original question was (as yeat unaswered) - how many presentations did the NLA directors get before contracting with Host? And by the way, in addition to practicing law, I have several businesses to run, one of which is a limousine company. There seems to be a common thread in these forums - and that is the mindset that because people are volunteers, or work for NADA, as you put it, that they are somehow sacred cows who are beyond criticism, and that they have the right to do whatever they want. Why does this theme keep popping up repeatedly? Kirk Taylor's work speaks for itself. Apparently you justify a dismal web site because it was free - more likely Taylor got trapped into keeping the web site up because no one at NLA could bring themselves to make a decision to do anything different. You are right, you get what you pay for, and it sounds more and more like that applies to "volunteer" directors as well.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
From your response of the 24/7 you remind me of the Borg from Star Trek. As to your question, there were three proposals made to the board. I voted for the best one. You are right about the dismal site before and you happen to be in agreement with many on the board. Would be nice to meet you sometime. Our next board meeting will be in New Orleans on Oct2-3. Need to go now, my son wants some attention. Next time, don't drop a cheap shot that I ducked out of a discussion. I plan on keeping in touch and monitor your rhetoric.
John

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jhj:
Sorci's letter was truly appalling in its arrogance, especially consiodering that, as near as I can determine, he has nothing to be arrogant about. Casteel, on the other hand, is a real politician. He mouths great concern for the industry and the value of NLA, which I suppose I would also if I had ridden that gravy-train for as long as others have. I think what we need is for a group of companies to get together and decide what the industry needs in the way of a trade association, formulates a written business plan to submit to the industry, secures an experienced association executive, locates in the Washington, DC area where trade associations belong when the industry is as highly regulated as transportation, and then get on with it. The thing we have to remember is that any organization becomes the captive of those who participate and are willing to work (even to their own advantage), and as long as the great masses of companies fail to join or play a part, any association will fall prey to predators. We could change NLA, but control of the board and the officers lies with the nominating committee, and that committee does nothing except self-perpetuate a small group. There is not even a way for someone from the outside to get on the ballot to stand election as a director by petition and signatures of a certain number of members. The ONLY way on to the board is through the nominating committee, otherwise known as a "mutual admiration society." In short, there is no way to refom NLA from within. I would guess the "founder" bears responsibility for this lack of democracy, since he enacted the by-laws. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
My name is Kay Hoskins, the President & Owner of B & K Luxury Coach Inc in Hillsdale, NJ. My company was one of the original 23 Founding Members of the NLA on January 20, 1985 at a meeting held in Washington DC. I've been on the Board since then. I remember & know a lot more about the people who have been involved with the NLA than some of them would like & have most of it in writing.
I have many issues to cover so I'll deal with them one at a time.
JHJ learn to read LimoScene
Nominating Committee
Consists of 3 Board Members & 1 Non Board Member. Nominations for Directors are done every year. It is not a closed Election. In the last LimoScene, as has been done each year in July & August, there was an article reminding the Membership that Elections were coming up for 2001. It lists the Board Seats that need to be filled & the region the United States they are from to make sure there are representatives from the Eastern, Central & Western regions. The article tells the Membership to call, fax or write the NLA office for an application & the qualifications needed to run if they would like to be put on the Slate. Qualifications are abide by the Code of Ethics, be legally registered with City, State & Federal Government, must have been in business for 2 years & a member of the NLA for 2 years. The applications are returned to the NLA office which sends them on to the Chair of the Nominating Committee. The Committee calls each applicant & asks them to submit a copy of their ICC & USDOT rights (where needed), a copy of their Insurance Certificate & a resume indicating why they want to be a Board Member, what they think they can give to Industry, there experience in business & State Associations. Calls are made to Limousine Operators in their area for Character Reference. After everything is received & checked the Candidates are listed in LimoScene 30 days before the deadline so that the Membership knows who is running & they can contact the Committee if they don't think someone on the list should be on the Board. Here JHJ is where some people are weeded out. Not by the Nominating Committee or the Board but by their Peers in the business. The Nominating Committee does not take one person's negative response & decide that a Candidate can't run. More investigation to make sure that the complaint is not a grudge complaint. After all the investigation the Slate is brought before the Board for approval. Last year we only had 6 Applicants because that is all that applied.
When the General Membership finds out that Board Members pay all their own expenses for Board Meetins except for 2 nights in the hotel & some sponsored lunches & dinners they don't apply.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kay Hoskins:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jhj:
Sorci's letter was truly appalling in its arrogance, especially consiodering that, as near as I can determine, he has nothing to be arrogant about. Casteel, on the other hand, is a real politician. He mouths great concern for the industry and the value of NLA, which I suppose I would also if I had ridden that gravy-train for as long as others have. I think what we need is for a group of companies to get together and decide what the industry needs in the way of a trade association, formulates a written business plan to submit to the industry, secures an experienced association executive, locates in the Washington, DC area where trade associations belong when the industry is as highly regulated as transportation, and then get on with it. The thing we have to remember is that any organization becomes the captive of those who participate and are willing to work (even to their own advantage), and as long as the great masses of companies fail to join or play a part, any association will fall prey to predators. We could change NLA, but control of the board and the officers lies with the nominating committee, and that committee does nothing except self-perpetuate a small group. There is not even a way for someone from the outside to get on the ballot to stand election as a director by petition and signatures of a certain number of members. The ONLY way on to the board is through the nominating committee, otherwise known as a "mutual admiration society." In short, there is no way to refom NLA from within. I would guess the "founder" bears responsibility for this lack of democracy, since he enacted the by-laws. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
My name is Kay Hoskins, the President & Owner of B & K Luxury Coach Inc in Hillsdale, NJ. My company was one of the original 23 Founding Members of the NLA on January 20, 1985 at a meeting held in Washington DC. I've been on the Board since then. I remember & know a lot more about the people who have been involved with the NLA than some of them would like & have most of it in writing.
I have many issues to cover so I'll deal with them one at a time.
JHJ learn to read LimoScene
Nominating Committee
Consists of 3 Board Members & 1 Non Board Member. Nominations for Directors are done every year. It is not a closed Election. In the last LimoScene, as has been done each year in July & August, there was an article reminding the Membership that Elections were coming up for 2001. It lists the Board Seats that need to be filled & the region the United States they are from to make sure there are representatives from the Eastern, Central & Western regions. The article tells the Membership to call, fax or write the NLA office for an application & the qualifications needed to run if they would like to be put on the Slate. Qualifications are abide by the Code of Ethics, be legally registered with City, State & Federal Government, must have been in business for 2 years & a member of the NLA for 2 years. The applications are returned to the NLA office which sends them on to the Chair of the Nominating Committee. The Committee calls each applicant & asks them to submit a copy of their ICC & USDOT rights (where needed), a copy of their Insurance Certificate & a resume indicating why they want to be a Board Member, what they think they can give to Industry, there experience in business & State Associations. Calls are made to Limousine Operators in their area for Character Reference. After everything is received & checked the Candidates are listed in LimoScene 30 days before the deadline so that the Membership knows who is running & they can contact the Committee if they don't think someone on the list should be on the Board. Here JHJ is where some people are weeded out. Not by the Nominating Committee or the Board but by their Peers in the business. The Nominating Committee does not take one person's negative response & decide that a Candidate can't run. More investigation to make sure that the complaint is not a grudge complaint. After all the investigation the Slate is brought before the Board for approval. Last year we only had 6 Applicants because that is all that applied.
When the General Membership finds out that Board Members pay all their own expenses for Board Meetins except for 2 nights in the hotel & some sponsored lunches & dinners they don't apply. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thank you, Kay. However, I need not read LimoScene because the By-Laws provide what you said, and I have read them. What no one can explain, apparently, without "calling a friend," is to identify BY NAME the persons on the nominating committee. The very same by-laws, however, also reveal that there is no "geographic" requirement or "balance" for the board of directors, and this is obviously some criteria that is being unlawfully imposed by someone who doesn't like what the By-Laws say. Can you explain why the nominating committee would otherwise be involved with "geographic regions?" As I said in an earlier post, I understand that there are legal irregularities left and right in the conduct of the NLA government and business. Who is it that is amending the by-laws without a vote by the members or the board of directors? Otherwise, thank you for the information, Kay. But an explanation would also be useful as to who is making these decisions (by name, please) and why?

It seems that the Florida Livery Association has become the official news dissemination
and news spokesman for the NLA. Maybe the FLA has gobbled up the NLA - today Florida, tommorrow the world.
I would like to receive the current status of what is going on in Washington and the other legislative areas from either an NLA official or the NLA's lobbyist, Mr. Lefkowitz. I don't think it is appropriate for the FLA and Mr. Gonzalez to act as a spokesman (official or otherwise) for the NLA.

The NLA has made some big mistakes but there are good board members that realize this. There is also going to be some strong people running come election time. The NLA did good with finally banding together with the ITLA to get HR1689 done. The ITLA is much stronger with politics end and the NLA found that out. Believe it or not the NLA directors recognize the fact that all devisions of the ITLA work well together.Companies should belong to both as you get much more information about the whole industry from the ITLA. I have to give BOB Scott and Al LaGasse credit they did what was best for the industry. Back to Kays comments, it is a shame that more companies can't afford to run for the board, why dont they run there main meetings around the Limo shows that would help, its to many trips that gets costly. JHJ why don't you give it a shot and run for the board, if you make it know out there it can't be hidden. My group made a difference with the certification program by letting people know. We don't want the board to be run by all the big guys. Darrell Norman I know your out there talk to your board come up with a plan, what are you guys going to do with all the money you have, help the little guy run don't scare him/her off. The right guys will make the difference.I am sorry to see some drop out, but some need to go.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GJM:
The NLA has made some big mistakes but there are good board members that realize this. There is also going to be some strong people running come election time. The NLA did good with finally banding together with the ITLA to get HR1689 done. The ITLA is much stronger with politics end and the NLA found that out. Believe it or not the NLA directors recognize the fact that all devisions of the ITLA work well together.Companies should belong to both as you get much more information about the whole industry from the ITLA. I have to give BOB Scott and Al LaGasse credit they did what was best for the industry. Back to Kays comments, it is a shame that more companies can't afford to run for the board, why dont they run there main meetings around the Limo shows that would help, its to many trips that gets costly. JHJ why don't you give it a shot and run for the board, if you make it know out there it can't be hidden. My group made a difference with the certification program by letting people know. We don't want the board to be run by all the big guys. Darrell Norman I know your out there talk to your board come up with a plan, what are you guys going to do with all the money you have, help the little guy run don't scare him/her off. The right guys will make the difference.I am sorry to see some drop out, but some need to go.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Because we haven't been NLA members for two years, which means the first time someone from our company can run for the Board is in 2002. And who wants to even try when the so-called "nominating committee" has an agenda of its own by superimosing a geographic requirement - unlawfully, I might add. But what can be done about it when this closed group has no rules, no guidelines and invents its own by-law modifications. We will support candidates with brains and b**ls, however, since there seems to be a shortage of both on the board. I'll be happy to brief candidates on what the by-laws say, what the D.C. law relating to non-profit companies is, and all of the ways that the board in the past has evaded both, aided and abetted by Host Communications.

For everybody's info, I just received a news bulletin from the ITLA it goes as such "Early this afternoon, we reached agreement with the NLA on the language for the proposed interstate transportation bill and the draft committee report language" they attached a copy of the draft along with the letter. This is good news for the companies along state borders. I was confident it could get done if they joined up. Props to Bob Scott and Al Lagasse, good job men. Thanks Al for getting us the info that quick.
GJM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GJM:
For everybody's info, I just received a news bulletin from the ITLA it goes as such "Early this afternoon, we reached agreement with the NLA on the language for the proposed interstate transportation bill and the draft committee report language" they attached a copy of the draft along with the letter. This is good news for the companies along state borders. I was confident it could get done if they joined up. Props to Bob Scott and Al Lagasse, good job men. Thanks Al for getting us the info that quick.
GJM<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Anyone want to guess when NLA will advise its members of the same thing. Today is Day 1. Let's count 'em, OK?

Today is Day 2.

Somehwere in these forums, it was pointed out by an NLA director that the last issue of LimoScene had the info on "running" to be a director. I dredged it up and here's the scoop. But first, let's look at the by-law provision on requirements for the board. Article 5, Section G, in pertinent part, says:
"All prospective directors must be active regular members for at least two (2) years and understand the commitment involved in the position. Directors are limited to two consecutive terms. Directors can apply for nomination after one year's absence. Seats on the Board of Directors shall be limited to no more than five (5) representatives from any known and recognized company. A recognized company as used in the above is defined as entities whereby 10% or more is owned or controlled by the same individual(s)." That's all it says.
On the other hand, here is what NLA says in LimoScene about who can be nominated (everything that is capitalized is NOT in the by-laws):
"The Board of Directors shall have five vacant seats in the 2001 election, TWO BEING IN THE CENTRAL REGION AND THREE IN THE EASTERN REGION." There is NOTING in the by-laws which requires representation by region. This is somebody's agenda that the directors are happy to advance, for reasons that as of now are unknown.
"Qualifications to become a board member include the following:
1. NLA dues must be current WITH NO UNRESOLVED COMPLAINTS PENDING IN THE NLA OFFICE.
2. Candidate must abiode by the NLA Code of Ethics and be a member of NLA for at least two years.
3. The candidate must be AN ACTIVE OWNER, officer OR GENERAL MANAGER of a limousine company FOR A MINIMUM OF TWO YEARS and have physical control of one or more vehicles.
4. THE CANDIDATE MUST ALSO BE WILLING TO SERVE ON A MINIMUM OF ONE ACTIVE COMMITTEE and understand the commitment involved in the position."
There is nothing in the by-laws about "unresolved complaints." Any complaint against a member with NLA will be "unresolved" forever since NLA staff responds to nothing and does nothing.
The language about an "active owner . . . or general manager of a limousine company" is invented by the staff or the nominating committee out of whole cloth. The only requirement is that one by an "officer" of a limousine company - so if your company is a sole proprietorship or a partnership, neither o which have "officers," you're out of luck - but the board doesn't follow the by-laws anyhow. The two year requirement is also misstated. The by-laws require that the company be a member for two years, not that the officer be an officer for two years. Example: Although my company has been in business less than two years, if we purchase a member company which has been a member for two or more years, I can then be eligible to be a director. But the nominating committee knows better than the by-laws and has unlawfully imposed a requirement that you be an officer of the member company for more than two years.
By the way, if all of this means anything, what is Sara McLean of Bobit Publishing doing on the board - it looks like her position there is also unlawful.
Our copy of the 2000-2001 NLA Directory also identifies four persons who are identified as "2000 Board Vendor Members." Where does this come from? The by-laws provide for the Allied Trade Members to select a chairman of their membership and that the NLA board shall appoint that chairman to a non-voting board position. There is no provision for FOUR "vendor members."
This gang that can't shoot straight (or read, apparently), or which doesn't care what the by-laws say, is YOUR NLA - ta ta ta daaaaaa!!!!
Are we ready for a legal challenge to this nonsense yet???

Today is Day 3.

This is a supplement to the post above concerning NLA directors.
The by-laws of NLA have the following provision as to the nominating committee:
"The Nominating Committee shall be appointed by the President and shall consist of five (5) members, four (4) of whom shall be members of the Board of Directors. The fifth member shall be appointed from the general membership."
The July LimoScene says the chairman is Cory Rozen (who is not identified in the 2000-2001 NLA Directory as a board member, but who is identified as a director eligible for reelection in the LimoScene - what happened here???).
The other members of the nomianting committee are: David Sellinger, Don Kensey, Randy Throckmorton, Curt Andrews, Mike Bedard and Kay Hoskins.
By my count, this is a committee of seven instead of the mandated five. By the way, LimoScene refers to "the following seven members of NLA," and then lists six - is someone on the NLA staff slightly challenged when it comes to counting???
Seelinger is listed in the 2000-2001 NLA Directory as a director, as is Kay Hoskins. Good people though they may or may not be (who knows), Kensey, Throckmorton, Andrews and Bedard are not directors. Only one of them can be on the committee, assuming that Rozen is a director even though he is not listed as such in the NLA Directory.
In other words, this committee is totally unlawfully constituted and its recommendations are a nullity. Can anyone on the NLA Board read? John Sinibaldi? John Sokol? Kay Hoskins? Carolyn Nelson? The rest of you lurkers? We know the morons on the NLA staff can't read - but we'd like to think that directors can. Maybe we need to revise the by-laws (aw, heck, that's not necessary, let's just ignore that meaningless document) to provide an additional qualification that candidates for director must be able to read. But if we do that, we probably won't get any "volunteers" to work for the "good of the industry" from which all of us shirkers will get great "benefit" of all of the NLA "successes."

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jhj:
Today is Day 3.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi Jim
Day 3??? Did you get the notice. If so, not bad in three days for all the members. If you did receive, why not post the notice? or can you count beyond three? I did post on the general commments that I would fax you a copy if you need one.
John

------------------

We received the notice yesterday (Tues Aug 30th) and will have a posting at our website.

Our Industry Center is a few days from launching and it will be posted there. NLA News as well as ITLA news, if any.

=)
Michael

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by fivestaroregon:
Hi Jim
Day 3??? Did you get the notice. If so, not bad in three days for all the members. If you did receive, why not post the notice? or can you count beyond three? I did post on the general commments that I would fax you a copy if you need one.
John
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Got it on Day 6, John, and I was able to count the days without using my fingers. Since this is the second fax in 8 months of 2000, I do wonder if it would have been sent if I had not made an issue of it in this forum.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jhj:
Got it on Day 6, John, and I was able to count the days without using my fingers. Since this is the second fax in 8 months of 2000, I do wonder if it would have been sent if I had not made an issue of it in this forum.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
It doesn't matter whether you got it on day three or six. The fact is, you did get it! You should have made note of it and also tip your hat to Bob Scott for working with the other groups to get this bill on track!
John

------------------

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jhj:
Got it on Day 6, John, and I was able to count the days without using my fingers. Since this is the second fax in 8 months of 2000, I do wonder if it would have been sent if I had not made an issue of it in this forum.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You sure do like to flatter yourself. I guess the rest of the members that have been in business are just really stupid, huh? Lucky they have you to be so negative about everything for them. Why not tell about YOUR hidden agenda? You probably bought your way into the business like a lot of legal beagles and other professionals do instead of starting hands on and growing from nothing.

So right now, I'm not contributing to the forum but in many cases neither are you lately. Yes it's just my opinion that maybe one out of every four or five messages you send have anything to them. The others waste bandwidth by degrading the association's management company or the association, counting days, and other junk. You want ISO9000 only so you can be first and nobody cares who is first, and who says you are the first? You don't know every company there is. And I bet you can be a ISO registrar and the high mighty to determine who is in and not, and to make your bloodmoney off the backs of limo biz people who you think are too dumb to know what's good for them.

Well I apologize because I am getting a little intense here. I really don't want people to think on me as an offender so I'll slip bank into the quiet. But I know because I am an averahe type that someone else other than me is getting tired of this junk.

Lance

P.S., I know you want to give another one of your smartass replies, but I challenge you to at least act like a professional person and finally give it a rest. For all the good youclaim you want to do, you are spoiling the forum for me!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lance:
You sure do like to flatter yourself. I guess the rest of the members that have been in business are just really stupid, huh? Lucky they have you to be so negative about everything for them. Why not tell about YOUR hidden agenda? You probably bought your way into the business like a lot of legal beagles and other professionals do instead of starting hands on and growing from nothing.

So right now, I'm not contributing to the forum but in many cases neither are you lately. Yes it's just my opinion that maybe one out of every four or five messages you send have anything to them. The others waste bandwidth by degrading the association's management company or the association, counting days, and other junk. You want ISO9000 only so you can be first and nobody cares who is first, and who says you are the first? You don't know every company there is. And I bet you can be a ISO registrar and the high mighty to determine who is in and not, and to make your bloodmoney off the backs of limo biz people who you think are too dumb to know what's good for them.

Well I apologize because I am getting a little intense here. I really don't want people to think on me as an offender so I'll slip bank into the quiet. But I know because I am an averahe type that someone else other than me is getting tired of this junk.

Lance

P.S., I know you want to give another one of your smartass replies, but I challenge you to at least act like a professional person and finally give it a rest. For all the good you claim you want to do, you are spoiling the forum for me!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why not register so people know who you are, Lance? By the way, are you an NLA member?

Just to keep people informed, my inside sorces report that the HR1689 bill could possibly put on the back burner this year with congress until the firestone problem is cured.
The fax sent out from the NLA gives a lot of credit to some associations around the country but the real credit should go to a few men from California, Buffalo, Chicago, Brooklyn and Florida that joined the ITLA and convinced them to continue talks with then NLA to get this done, The ITLA listened to its members otherwise they would have proceded on their own, they did what was best overall, thanks again to Bob Scott and Al LaGasse. Now the NLA should listen to the real associations in Florida when they say they want no part of the R G state bill.
I am sure people in this forum has checked out the Single state permit issue in Florida.
Point being is that they are about to lose any hope of regaining the support they need from there because of recognizing a gentleman that most don't. JHJ some of your points can be really hard and you sure don't hold back but you are getting attention for sure. Sometimes they just tick you off, but not all those NLA directors are bad but they should beware as there is about to be an explosion in Florida. Stay tuned!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dean Schuler:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ragu:
Just to keep people informed, my inside sorces report that the HR1689 bill could possibly put on the back burner this year with congress until the firestone problem is cured.
The fax sent out from the NLA gives a lot of credit to some associations around the country but the real credit should go to a few men from California, Buffalo, Chicago, Brooklyn and Florida that joined the ITLA and convinced them to continue talks with then NLA to get this done, The ITLA listened to its members otherwise they would have proceded on their own, they did what was best overall, thanks again to Bob Scott and Al LaGasse. Now the NLA should listen to the real associations in Florida when they say they want no part of the R G state bill.
I am sure people in this forum has checked out the Single state permit issue in Florida.
Point being is that they are about to lose any hope of regaining the support they need from there because of recognizing a gentleman that most don't. JHJ some of your points can be really hard and you sure don't hold back but you are getting attention for sure. Sometimes they just tick you off, but not all those NLA directors are bad but they should beware as there is about to be an explosion in Florida. Stay tuned![/QUOTE
i had a long talk with Alan Fisher, the founder of the NLA last night. The problem is this: the NLA was founded and staffed by industry veterans who know the business. Many were fron L.O.I. ( the old ones) and knew the industry inside & out. Now, for the most part we have idiot soci's and short-timers who don't know anything !!!!!! I served on the Board because Digest wanted me to. It was the most appalling experience of my life. Those people are morons, and need to be removed from leadership in the industry. Signed, Dean Schuler, a limousine industry veteran, and someone who loves the best American Profession, the limousine industry!!!!!!!!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
************

As President Reagan said one time "Their you go again." Kay asked you to explain your conduct on the board. "Lets have the rest of the story." Calling people names is not professional, remember your limo is made of glass. Don't throw rocks. Stick to the facts, and let's have a meaningful dialog to help our industry.
John

------------------

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by fivestaroregon:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dean Schuler:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ragu:
Just to keep people informed, my inside sorces report that the HR1689 bill could possibly put on the back burner this year with congress until the firestone problem is cured.
The fax sent out from the NLA gives a lot of credit to some associations around the country but the real credit should go to a few men from California, Buffalo, Chicago, Brooklyn and Florida that joined the ITLA and convinced them to continue talks with then NLA to get this done, The ITLA listened to its members otherwise they would have proceded on their own, they did what was best overall, thanks again to Bob Scott and Al LaGasse. Now the NLA should listen to the real associations in Florida when they say they want no part of the R G state bill.
I am sure people in this forum has checked out the Single state permit issue in Florida.
Point being is that they are about to lose any hope of regaining the support they need from there because of recognizing a gentleman that most don't. JHJ some of your points can be really hard and you sure don't hold back but you are getting attention for sure. Sometimes they just tick you off, but not all those NLA directors are bad but they should beware as there is about to be an explosion in Florida. Stay tuned![/QUOTE
i had a long talk with Alan Fisher, the founder of the NLA last night. The problem is this: the NLA was founded and staffed by industry veterans who know the business. Many were fron L.O.I. ( the old ones) and knew the industry inside & out. Now, for the most part we have idiot soci's and short-timers who don't know anything !!!!!! I served on the Board because Digest wanted me to. It was the most appalling experience of my life. Those people are morons, and need to be removed from leadership in the industry. Signed, Dean Schuler, a limousine industry veteran, and someone who loves the best American Profession, the limousine industry!!!!!!!!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
************

As President Reagan said one time "Their you go again." Kay asked you to explain your conduct on the board. "Lets have the rest of the story." Calling people names is not professional, remember your limo is made of glass. Don't throw rocks. Stick to the facts, and let's have a meaningful dialog to help our industry.
John
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Why don't you explain to the industry how endorsements are made by the Board ?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by fivestaroregon:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dean Schuler:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ragu:
Just to keep people informed, my inside sorces report that the HR1689 bill could possibly put on the back burner this year with congress until the firestone problem is cured.
The fax sent out from the NLA gives a lot of credit to some associations around the country but the real credit should go to a few men from California, Buffalo, Chicago, Brooklyn and Florida that joined the ITLA and convinced them to continue talks with then NLA to get this done, The ITLA listened to its members otherwise they would have proceded on their own, they did what was best overall, thanks again to Bob Scott and Al LaGasse. Now the NLA should listen to the real associations in Florida when they say they want no part of the R G state bill.
I am sure people in this forum has checked out the Single state permit issue in Florida.
Point being is that they are about to lose any hope of regaining the support they need from there because of recognizing a gentleman that most don't. JHJ some of your points can be really hard and you sure don't hold back but you are getting attention for sure. Sometimes they just tick you off, but not all those NLA directors are bad but they should beware as there is about to be an explosion in Florida. Stay tuned![/QUOTE
i had a long talk with Alan Fisher, the founder of the NLA last night. The problem is this: the NLA was founded and staffed by industry veterans who know the business. Many were fron L.O.I. ( the old ones) and knew the industry inside & out. Now, for the most part we have idiot soci's and short-timers who don't know anything !!!!!! I served on the Board because Digest wanted me to. It was the most appalling experience of my life. Those people are morons, and need to be removed from leadership in the industry. Signed, Dean Schuler, a limousine industry veteran, and someone who loves the best American Profession, the limousine industry!!!!!!!!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
************

As President Reagan said one time "Their you go again." Kay asked you to explain your conduct on the board. "Lets have the rest of the story." Calling people names is not professional, remember your limo is made of glass. Don't throw rocks. Stick to the facts, and let's have a meaningful dialog to help our industry.
John
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Nice try John. However, the NLA does not speak for the industry, which consists of 30,000 operators. Why don't you ask them about the software company from hell that they endorsed ( none of the board members had the software and none did any investigative research) and that a board member had a separate financial venture with the software company. The industry lost a ton of money and all the NLA could do was try to wipe the egg off it's face. I Experienced the third world justice of the NLA first hand, and I know what a joke those people are .I went to 12 software experts before I drew a bead on that company. But, you know what they say about people who have opinions without research. Their conclusions are delusional and preposterous.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by fivestaroregon:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dean Schuler:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ragu:
Just to keep people informed, my inside sorces report that the HR1689 bill could possibly put on the back burner this year with congress until the firestone problem is cured.
The fax sent out from the NLA gives a lot of credit to some associations around the country but the real credit should go to a few men from California, Buffalo, Chicago, Brooklyn and Florida that joined the ITLA and convinced them to continue talks with then NLA to get this done, The ITLA listened to its members otherwise they would have proceded on their own, they did what was best overall, thanks again to Bob Scott and Al LaGasse. Now the NLA should listen to the real associations in Florida when they say they want no part of the R G state bill.
I am sure people in this forum has checked out the Single state permit issue in Florida.
Point being is that they are about to lose any hope of regaining the support they need from there because of recognizing a gentleman that most don't. JHJ some of your points can be really hard and you sure don't hold back but you are getting attention for sure. Sometimes they just tick you off, but not all those NLA directors are bad but they should beware as there is about to be an explosion in Florida. Stay tuned![/QUOTE
i had a long talk with Alan Fisher, the founder of the NLA last night. The problem is this: the NLA was founded and staffed by industry veterans who know the business. Many were fron L.O.I. ( the old ones) and knew the industry inside & out. Now, for the most part we have idiot soci's and short-timers who don't know anything !!!!!! I served on the Board because Digest wanted me to. It was the most appalling experience of my life. Those people are morons, and need to be removed from leadership in the industry. Signed, Dean Schuler, a limousine industry veteran, and someone who loves the best American Profession, the limousine industry!!!!!!!!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
************

As President Reagan said one time "Their you go again." Kay asked you to explain your conduct on the board. "Lets have the rest of the story." Calling people names is not professional, remember your limo is made of glass. Don't throw rocks. Stick to the facts, and let's have a meaningful dialog to help our industry.
John
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
No board member should serve over four years, they become out of touch after that.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by fivestaroregon:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jhj:
Got it on Day 6, John, and I was able to count the days without using my fingers. Since this is the second fax in 8 months of 2000, I do wonder if it would have been sent if I had not made an issue of it in this forum.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
It doesn't matter whether you got it on day three or six. The fact is, you did get it! You should have made note of it and also tip your hat to Bob Scott for working with the other groups to get this bill on track!
John
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Bob Scott is a GOOD Man, but it is time to say GOODBYE to the NLA and the limited stuff that they push !!!!!!!!! 30'000 operators and they keep pushing the smame tired agency!!!!!!!! DEAN SCHULER

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dean Schuler:

No board member should serve over four years, they become out of touch after that.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Really, Dean! I rather thought that being out of touch was a prerequisite to nomination.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jhj:
Really, Dean! I rather thought that being out of touch was a prerequisite to nomination.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Not so Jim.

John


------------------

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dean Schuler:
[B][QUOTE]Originally posted by jhj:
[b]Does anyone know this turkey Ron Sorci who sits on the Board of NLA? Dean - what about you? In the event my use of the term "turkey" doesn't express my feelings, I find him all "pomp" and no "circumstance.

JHJ--------I've been reading your negative posts and would appreciate the opportunity to speak with you and 'clear the air' about some of the various issues you feel are relative to the NLA and specifically about me on a personal basis. It seems that you need to learn more about me and the efforts I am putting forth.Please let me know when a good time would be to reach you and I beleive that once you've had a chance to hear 'my views' , perhaps you will ultimately feel differently. I also want you to know that I have no personal agenda by serving on the NLA other than to try and contribute in anyway possible for the ultimate benefit of its members. I realize you may not believe that, however,once we've had a chance to exchange our ideas together, perhaps you will feel a little better about me.
I look forward to speaking with you soon and hope that we can work toward satisfying the goals of our members and avoid any further mud slinging.
Ron Sorci

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RPS:
JHJ--------I've been reading your negative posts and would appreciate the opportunity to speak with you and 'clear the air' about some of the various issues you feel are relative to the NLA and specifically about me on a personal basis. It seems that you need to learn more about me and the efforts I am putting forth. Please let me know when a good time would be to reach you and I beleive that once you've had a chance to hear 'my views' , perhaps you will ultimately feel differently. I also want you to know that I have no personal agenda by serving on the NLA other than to try and contribute in anyway possible for the ultimate benefit of its members. I realize you may not believe that, however, once we've had a chance to exchange our ideas together, perhaps you will feel a little better about me.
I look forward to speaking with you soon and hope that we can work toward satisfying the goals of our members and avoid any further mud slinging.
Ron Sorci
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have little reason to speak to you, Ron. In case you have forgotten, the following is the text of a letter which you sent to Greg Casteel, and copied to Darryl Norman, Robert Scott, Marion McCormack and Linda Bouland (who responds to nothing) in response to a very brief letter I sent to Casteel complaining that he had "dumped" the CTCP on NLA which is totally incompetent to administer such a program. Please explain how this letter related to your capacity as an NLA director and how it advanced the interests of the industry. The text follows (the annotations in paranthesis are mine):

August 3, 2000

Mr. Greg Casteel
Pegasus Transportation Holding, Inc.
6030 Bunker Hill
Pittsburgh, PA 15206-1156

(As I recall, Casteel is/was with Pinnacle Performance in Portland)

Dear Greg:

I am in receipt of your fax regarding the letter you received from James Joseph and your response.

I believe your letter to him was sufficiently detailed and we should wait for his reply.

It is my belief that any further correspondence to someone like him will only dignify and enhance his ridiculous comments.

Please keep me advised accordingly. (Does Greg Casteel report to you?)

Very truly yours,

Precept Transportation Services, LLC

/s/ Ron Sorci

Ron Sorci
President:

cc: D. Norman
B. Scott
M. McCormack
L. Bouland

And just in case someone even entertains the notion that your comments were even relevant, let alone called for, here's the text of the letter I sent to Greg Casteel, which says nothing more or less than what I have been saying here for almost 5 weeks, which is true, and which will come to pass. By the way, I will reiterate what I have said repeatedly - since July 19 there has been no substantive response from Linda Bouland or anyone else to our e-mail concerning where and how to submit CTCP test materials and pre-certification materials.


July 29, 2000

Greg Casteel
Pinnacle Performance Systems
2419 N.E. Broadway
Portland, OR 97232

Dear Greg:

How could you have done this to us? How could you write with a straight face the memo that was faxed to us telling us how great it would be to have NLA administer the CTCP. You know as well as we do that NLA is the most administratively inept bunch of morons ever put on this Earth. This is the end of the CTCP, and I'll take serious bets on that position (care to wager?).

We have never seen NLA respond to member communications, and when you finally get their attention, they are too inept to perform. Case in point - we are midway in the certification process and we can't even get Linda Bouland to respond to e-mail concerning where we send things. Mailing anything to NLA is like sending it into a black-hole.

Why not be truthful with us - you wanted to bail-out of the certification program and let someone else take the rap for its failure. Thanks a lot.

Yours very truly,

/s/ James H. Joseph

James H. Joseph, Managing Director

I stand by all of my comments. After almost 100 posts, no one has taken exception to the non-responsiveness of the NLA staff, and others have concurred in my "ridiculous" assessment of the NLA staff. After almost 6 weeks, no one has replied to our e-mail inquiries. NLA has no clue what to do with the CTCP. My criticisms are not only valid, but supported by many substantial NLA members, and a bunch of NLA directors, too. There was nothing "ridiculous" about them. And if by "someone like him" you mean someone who is a clear, rational threat to "someone like you," then that much of what you said is certainly true.

Not only do I intend to be there when Bob Scott empties his desk (and the rest of the NLA staff, too), but I intend to be there when you are off the committee and the board. YOU are everything that is wrong with the NLA - and you are singlehandedly responsible for pi****g me off enough to take on you, the committee, the directors and the NLA - and I have tremendous staying power.

Now, let's see you defend not only the propriety of sending your uninvited letter, circulating it to others, and the substance of what you said - as to the latter, tell me what was "ridiculous" about my comments, and what you meant by "someone like him." I have read and faxed a copy of your letter to a number of influential operators and some NLA directors - I don't think any of them will defend your action in writing the letter, or the contents, especially those who KNOW that the CTCP was "dumped" by Casteel. And a lot of them now understand what has led to the threads in this forum.

I will be in Chicago on the 20th, where I assume "someone like you" who claims to be interested in the CTCP will also be. I am not sure, however, that there is much purpose in our having a dialogue because I don't expect you to have much continuing influence in the CTCP.

Perhaps a very open, public, complete and UNEQUIVOCAL apology for your conduct might get us back to neutral ground.

Now that we have all of this on the table publicly, perhaps you can explain to everyone what you propose to speak to me privately about.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jhj:
I have little reason to speak to you, Ron. In case you have forgotten, the following is the text of a letter which you sent to Greg Casteel, and copied to Darryl Norman, Robert Scott, Marion McCormack and Linda Bouland (who responds to nothing) in response to a very brief letter I sent to Casteel complaining that he had "dumped" the CTCP on NLA which is totally incompetent to administer such a program. Please explain how this letter related to your capacity as an NLA director and how it advanced the interests of the industry. The text follows (the annotations in paranthesis are mine):

August 3, 2000

Mr. Greg Casteel
Pegasus Transportation Holding, Inc.
6030 Bunker Hill
Pittsburgh, PA 15206-1156

(As I recall, Casteel is/was with Pinnacle Performance in Portland)

Dear Greg:

I am in receipt of your fax regarding the letter you received from James Joseph and your response.

I believe your letter to him was sufficiently detailed and we should wait for his reply.

It is my belief that any further correspondence to someone like him will only dignify and enhance his ridiculous comments.

Please keep me advised accordingly. (Does Greg Casteel report to you?)

Very truly yours,

Precept Transportation Services, LLC

/s/ Ron Sorci

Ron Sorci
President:

cc: D. Norman
B. Scott
M. McCormack
L. Bouland

And just in case someone even entertains the notion that your comments were even relevant, let alone called for, here's the text of the letter I sent to Greg Casteel, which says nothing more or less than what I have been saying here for almost 5 weeks, which is true, and which will come to pass. By the way, I will reiterate what I have said repeatedly - since July 19 there has been no substantive response from Linda Bouland or anyone else to our e-mail concerning where and how to submit CTCP test materials and pre-certification materials.


July 29, 2000

Greg Casteel
Pinnacle Performance Systems
2419 N.E. Broadway
Portland, OR 97232

Dear Greg:

How could you have done this to us? How could you write with a straight face the memo that was faxed to us telling us how great it would be to have NLA administer the CTCP. You know as well as we do that NLA is the most administratively inept bunch of morons ever put on this Earth. This is the end of the CTCP, and I'll take serious bets on that position (care to wager?).

We have never seen NLA respond to member communications, and when you finally get their attention, they are too inept to perform. Case in point - we are midway in the certification process and we can't even get Linda Bouland to respond to e-mail concerning where we send things. Mailing anything to NLA is like sending it into a black-hole.

Why not be truthful with us - you wanted to bail-out of the certification program and let someone else take the rap for its failure. Thanks a lot.

Yours very truly,

/s/ James H. Joseph

James H. Joseph, Managing Director

I stand by all of my comments. After almost 100 posts, no one has taken exception to the non-responsiveness of the NLA staff, and others have concurred in my "ridiculous" assessment of the NLA staff. After almost 6 weeks, no one has replied to our e-mail inquiries. NLA has no clue what to do with the CTCP. My criticisms are not only valid, but supported by many substantial NLA members, and a bunch of NLA directors, too. There was nothing "ridiculous" about them. And if by "someone like him" you mean someone who is a clear, rational threat to "someone like you," then that much of what you said is certainly true.

Not only do I intend to be there when Bob Scott empties his desk (and the rest of the NLA staff, too), but I intend to be there when you are off the committee and the board. YOU are everything that is wrong with the NLA - and you are singlehandedly responsible for pi****g me off enough to take on you, the committee, the directors and the NLA - and I have tremendous staying power.

Now, let's see you defend not only the propriety of sending your uninvited letter, circulating it to others, and the substance of what you said - as to the latter, tell me what was "ridiculous" about my comments, and what you meant by "someone like him." I have read and faxed a copy of your letter to a number of influential operators and some NLA directors - I don't think any of them will defend your action in writing the letter, or the contents, especially those who KNOW that the CTCP was "dumped" by Casteel. And a lot of them now understand what has led to the threads in this forum.

I will be in Chicago on the 20th, where I assume "someone like you" who claims to be interested in the CTCP will also be. I am not sure, however, that there is much purpose in our having a dialogue because I don't expect you to have much continuing influence in the CTCP.

Perhaps a very open, public, complete and UNEQUIVOCAL apology for your conduct might get us back to neutral ground.

Now that we have all of this on the table publicly, perhaps you can explain to everyone what you propose to speak to me privately about.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
JHJ
It does not surprise me that you will not take me up on my offer to speak with you.
Does it conflict with your personal agenda here?
I also would appreciate you stating facts correctly.
1-------The letter I sent to Greg was relating to a 3 page letter that you sent him and not the 'brief' letter you posted here.
2-------If you carefully read my letter it merely states that it's my opinion that an additional letter did not appear to be necessary, I did find the letter which you did not post here to be one that was purely counterproductive and lacking any respect for a meaningful exchange of ideas. Based on what I've read here, it seems that is your style.
3----Greg 'does not report to me'. and he originally faxed me a copy of your letter and his response . He asked various individuals for their input.I'm sorry my input did not concur with your wishes.
You have chosen to read much deeper into my "brief' letter to Greg and it's becoming more obvious to me and others in the industry that perhaps you have a personal agenda which is far beyond issuing complaints.
I will be in Chicago on the 20th and once again ask that you speak to me here, offline or anywhere you feel is appropiate.
Ron Sorci

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RPS:

1-------The letter I sent to Greg was relating to a 3 page letter that you sent him and not the 'brief' letter you posted here.
2-------If you carefully read my letter it merely states that it's my opinion that an additional letter did not appear to be necessary, I did find the letter which you did not post here to be one that was purely counterproductive and lacking any respect for a meaningful exchange of ideas. Based on what I've read here, it seems that is your style.
3----Greg 'does not report to me'. and he originally faxed me a copy of your letter and his response . He asked various individuals for their input.I'm sorry my input did not concur with your wishes.
You have chosen to read much deeper into my "brief' letter to Greg and it's becoming more obvious to me and others in the industry that perhaps you have a personal agenda which is far beyond issuing complaints.
I will be in Chicago on the 20th and once again ask that you speak to me here, offline or anywhere you feel is appropiate.
Ron Sorci
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wrong, Ron. My brief letter to Greg Casteel was written on July 29. Your letter to Greg Casteel was written on August 3 and faxed to me also. The three page letter to which you refer was written and MAILED (not faxed) to Greg Casteel and persons noted as receiving copies on August 7. Let's not try to explain away your conduct by distorting the sequence and dates of letters. I'll have the whole file in Chicago, and I'll be happy to post the entire sequence of letters here - just say the word!

I guess I really didn't expect you to deal with the substance of the last post. Pardon me, but I think the full text of your letter is there for everyone to see. It didn't MERELY state that no response was necessary - it said what it said, now own up to it. And by the way, your letter had NO INPUT. It didn't say anything of substance (since you apparently don't have any thoughts of substance). You letter was a gratuitous, vacuous and an arrogant attempt to dismiss my letter to Greg Casteel, and to do so publicly and to appear erudite at the same time. You are correct that my second letter to Greg Casteel was not constructive, because it was precipitated by your gratuitous letter. It didn't take me long to figure out what I was dealing with. Isn't it strange, Ron, but not a single person, including NLA directors, has yet been able to defend the NLA staff incompetence, or answer even ONE of the numerous questions I have posed in this forum and in any of the letters exchanged with Greg Casteel.

I have NO agenda, Ron, except to rid NLA of the self-dealing, incompetence and the arrogance of "people like you." Why not take a shot at answering the questions in my last post?

Michael doesn't like name calling in the forums - but I'm sure that anyone reading the threads and your letter is well aware that I'm not name-calling, I'm merely accurately describing what everyone can see for themselves.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RPS:
I did find the letter which you did not post here to be one that was purely counterproductive and lacking any respect for a meaningful exchange of ideas.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Since you seem to imply that there was a reason I didn't post the August 7 (4-page, which you refer to as a 3-page) letter, here it is, verbatim, including the date:


August 7, 2000

Greg Casteel
Pinnacle Performance Systems
2419 N.E. Broadway
Portland, OR 97232

Dear Mr. Casteel:

Well, well, well. Call people an "administratively inept bunch of morons" and up pops Ron Sorci. I must have hit a nerve - - or a bull's eye - - one or the other, or perhaps both.

This is the "reply" that Ron Sorci alludes to - actually, I attempted to reply by fax last Wednesday, but there is no working transceiver at 503.460.2962 (or at least there wasn't until at least midnight on Wednesday). I also note that Pinnacle has no e-mail address, so that method of "reply" was not available.

In my last letter, perhaps I was too conclusory, so I am taking the liberty in this "reply" to serve up some facts, although I'm sure that Ron Sorci doesn't want to be confused by facts - remember the adage, "my mind is made up, don't confuse me with facts." I'll start at the beginning, nonetheless, with the salient (but certainly not all) of the facts.

Our company applied for NLA membership in December, 1999. After being admitted to membership, we noticed that the NLA web site was not updated to include our membership. This came to our attention because on our web site we indicated NLA membership, and a visitor (possibly a competitor) wondered about the claim since NLA did not list us as a member. So, we began looking into the matter. In doing so, we noted that not only membership information was not kept up to date, but nothing else was kept up to date either. In the cyber-age, old information is worse than no information.

In an effort to get our company added to the web site, I used the NLA website and sent an e-mail inquiring about the outdated membership listing. When I got no response, I tried a couple more e-mail attempts, all without success. I then tried to telephone NLA. At that moment, I did not remember from NLA materials that NLA had a toll-free number, so I called directory assistance in Lexington, Kentucky only to learn that NLA has no telephone listing and apparently exists only as a button on a telephone console for a number of entities owned or managed by a former gold-mining company selling penny-stock. After leaving a few messages with no response, I finally camped on the NLA line and insisted that I wasn't getting off until Bob Scott spoke with me, which he ultimately did. Bob and I had at least two [break between page 1 and 2] lengthy conversations that ranged over a number of areas, but they all related to staff responsiveness (more appropriately, the lack thereof) and the dismal web site maintained by NLA (with which appraisal, I might add, Bob Scott wholly agreed, although no one has done anything to improve the situation).

In our first conversation, Bob promised to have the site updated within a few days. After a couple of weeks with no update, I made my second call to Bob Scott. In that conversation Bob explained that there really was no one available anymore to maintain the web site, but that he would make another effort to do so. In a couple of days, like magic, our company was listed, riddled with errors. I called NLA again in an effort to correct the listing, and got most of it straightened out, but you will note that after eight months NLA still can't get our fax number correct, despite the error having been called to their attention a number of times.

At this stage of the game (early July), NLA had demonstrated its complete inability to respond to e-mail, its complete inability to ever return a phone call, its reluctance to talk to any member in the absence of duress, its failure to update its web site except under extreme duress, and its complete incompetence at getting member information correct and correcting the errors which it makes. When I raised this issue in member forums on the internet, a whole raft of new NLA members chimed in that they, too, cannot get their companies listed on the web site or get responses to their inquiries from NLA staff. At least we are not alone.

In July we received your memo by fax which reported the news of the "gift" to NLA and how wonderful that would be. Frankly, we didn't share the wonderment since we were now going to be faced with the complex and continuing nature of certification with an organization that had never responded to any e-mail we sent them, never returned a phone call, which would communicate only when forced to, and which cannot get its act together to update its web site or to publish membership information correctly - in other words, a real paradigm of competence and efficiency.

Your memo said that the turn-over was effective July 17. Since we are midstream in certification, I sent Linda Bouland an immediate e-mail asking a simple question - to whom do we send the test materials and the company pre-certification materials. The e-mail was sent a day or two after receiving the memo on July 16. It certainly came as no surprise when by July 29 I received no response whatsoever. On that date (July 29), I e-mailed Linda again suggesting that I didn't get the courtesy of a response and suggesting, as I did to you, and have to many others since, that NLA's participation in the CTCP was its death-knell (time will bear me out, let me assure you). That same date, I also sent an e-mail to the NLA general "information" e-mail box and asked Bob Scott to call me. No reply from Bob Scott as of 9:30 PM EDT tonight. Linda Bouland sent an e-mail on July 30 saying that she never got the e-mail message (the headers show otherwise) and stating that she was in Los Angeles doing something else for NLA and that she checks her e-mail from there, but she failed utterly to respond substantively to my questions. I replied to her later the same day, and asked the same questions again. I sent this e-mail with a request for a return receipt so I could see whether she really checked her e-mail or not and when, and learned the obvious. Three days later (on August 2), Linda checked her e-mail and responded that NLA had only received the data files last week, that she had sent my request to Wendy Sparks the certification coordinator to answer my questions (obviously Linda didn't have a clue herself what the answer was), and that I should feel free to give Wendy a call. As of 9:30 PM EDT tonight, Wendy Sparks did not respond to my forwarded e-mail. [break between page 2 and 3] Obviously, the CTCP is a very part-time job for Linda Bouland, and she hasn't a clue as to whom and where to send the testing materials or she would have told me. No one else has told me either, except you, but I wouldn't send original materials into the NLA "black hole" if I had to. First, they'd probably lose them, and even if they didn't, second, no one would respond or, third, do anything with them.

It is now almost three weeks since my first inquiry and I have no answer from NLA as to what to do with the testing and pre-certification documents. Obviously, if we depend on NLA we might achieve certification sometime in the next decade, if ever. More likely the program will die before we can be certified.

Those are the facts, Mr. Casteel - now I'll await your reply.

As to "someone like" Ron Sorci - I think I now know the root of part of the problem. Sorci is obviously a limo "old boy" who does not want to get his hands dirty with something as mundane as administration, and he certainly doesn't want to be challenged with something "new" like e-mail, how it should be handled, or how web sites should be maintained. Hell, he probably can't even use a computer. I note the total absence of an e-mail address on his stationery, and that although his company purports to have a web site (www.ptst.com, (http://www.ptst.com,) a catchy domain name if there ever was one), the NLA web site doesn't reference it, but perhaps that's because he is no more successful than we at getting the "administratively inept bunch of morons" at NLA to do their job. More importantly, attempts to look at Sorci's company web site report only that it cannot be found! Perhaps it's "under development" by the same geniuses that handle the NLA web site. I might add that even if the www.ptst.com (http://www.ptst.com) site existed, it is referenced by not one of the major search engines on the internet, which means that it might as well not exist. How can we expect Ron Sorci's "leadership" of NLA to amount to anything?

I have to admit, however, that Sorci is cute, or at least thinks he is. The last time I ever heard someone say that to reply was to dignify someone's complaints, it was met with laughter as a hackneyed expression that only someone who can conceive of no substantive reply would use as a "ridiculous" rejoinder. It falls in the same category as the tired expressions that someone's complaint is "so preposterous as to be virtually unassailable," and that someone "doesn't want to get into a battle of wits with an unarmed person." They're all put-offs when you don't have anything to say. By the way, what was the information content of Ron Sorci's letter anyhow, other than to flaunt his pseudo-erudition? Does he have nothing to do other than write letters acknowledging that he "is in receipt" of a copy of letters written by others? I particularly like the "[p]lease keep me advised accordingly." Do you report to him? Wow - that letter had important stuff in it!

I want to add one more thing, Mr. Casteel. You should re-read my original letter and compare it with your overreaction in response. You proceeded to defend all of the putatively hard-working volunteers who serve NLA on its board and as officers whom you assumed I was criticizing, but I did not impugn or "bash" them as you suggest. What I did "bash" in my letter was the rife incompetence and disinterest of the employees of the former gold-mining company into whose lap the hard-working directors and officers dumped NLA, the same way you dumped the CTCP. Their incompetence and disinterest cannot be defended, except by lamely suggesting that there is no need to reply to "someone like me." As the months and years wear on, we'll see what "someone like me" can do to the incompetent and the technologically-challenged. Too bad you're not still in the industry to watch it happen.

[break between pages 3 and 4] By the way, since you chose to expand this dialogue to others (including the "ridiculous" Ron Sorci), I have chosen to further expand it by circulating the exchange of letters, including Sorci's "ridiculous" letter, to participants in various internet forums who have expressed the same concerns as ours, and to those meeting to organize the American Limousine Association (I now understand their motivation). Perhaps the latter can put this dialogue to particularly good use. As for our company, for the time-being we're going to make our contribution by kicking asses where they deserve to be kicked and working to terminate the contract with Host Communications and move the NLA back to the Washington, D.C. area where it belongs and where there is at least a pool of competent association-employees to staff a national trade association.

If any recipients of this letter get the idea that I think Sorci's letter had no purpose other than to belittle a member of the NLA and that it was particularly inappropriate (just as he is inappropriate) for a director of the association to write such a letter, then they have the right idea and will understand perfectly that we are capable of dishing out far more than we get.

Yours very truly,

/s/ James H. Joseph

James H. Joseph, Managing Director

JHJ:bsj

Copies:

Darryl W. Norman
Riches & Roses Limousine Service
4200 S. Tryon Street
Charlotte, NC 28217

Robert Scott
National Limousine Association
2365 Harrodsburg Rd.
Suite A325
Lexington, KY 40504

Marion McCormack
Sterling Limousines Limited, Inc.
15121 Kimberley Court
Houston, TX 77079

Ron Sorci
Precept Transportation Services, LLC
1909 Woodall Rodgers Freeway
Dallas, TX 75201

If your letter of August 3, 2000 was a reply to the foregoing FOUR (not three) page letter replying to Greg Casteel, you are clairvoyant since it wasn't written until the 7th.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RPS:

1-------The letter I sent to Greg was relating to a 3 page letter that you sent him and not the 'brief' letter you posted here.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you were writing about the "3" (actually 4) page letter, and you only wrote one letter, how come my August 7 letter is referring to your letter which you claim was written in response to my August 7 letter. Somebody is in a time warp, and it isn't me. Now, do you want to explain yourself?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jhj:
If you were writing about the "3" (actually 4) page letter, and you only wrote one letter, how come my August 7 letter is referring to your letter which you claim was written in response to my August 7 letter. Somebody is in a time warp, and it isn't me. Now, do you want to explain yourself?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
JHJ--------I honestly believe we are going around in circles at this point. I've now asked you twice to speak with me and to stop hiding behind a keyboard. If you carefully read your letters to Greg ,it would appear obvious to anyone, that you believe you and you alone have the right to call people morons and voice whatever negative concerns you have without a professional forum. In your law practice, assuming you actually have one, do you advise your clients that as part of your services you also act as judge and jury?
Jim, why not try to act a little professional and talk to me on a line by line basis of what's really the issues instead of disguising it with childish behavior.
I wish I had as much free time as you to type over 400 post here however, i do have a life and suggest you begin searching for one soon.
Your letters and posts are certainly more insulting than meaningful however I certainly can't change your business style.
Lastly, please don't insult everyone's intelligence by saying that you have no agenda. Your 8/7 letter speaks about the formation of the American Limousine Association and your desire to
move back the NLA to Washington'---------let me take a wild guess and assume that such thoughts are not part of YOUR agenda.I do hope that you can find a way to discuss things professionally , however, in my heart I feel it's probably highly unlikely.
I , for the third time offer you my time to discuss this and any issue you feel worthy of discussion.
Ron Sorci

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RPS:
I've now asked you twice to speak with me and to stop hiding behind a keyboard. If you carefully read your letters to Greg, it would appear obvious to anyone, that you believe you and you alone have the right to call people morons and voice whatever negative concerns you have without a professional forum. In your law practice, assuming you actually have one, do you advise your clients that as part of your services you also act as judge and jury?
Jim, why not try to act a little professional and talk to me on a line by line basis of what's really the issues instead of disguising it with childish behavior.
I wish I had as much free time as you to type over 400 post here however, i do have a life and suggest you begin searching for one soon.
Your letters and posts are certainly more insulting than meaningful however I certainly can't change your business style.
Lastly, please don't insult everyone's intelligence by saying that you have no agenda. Your 8/7 letter speaks about the formation of the American Limousine Association and your desire to
move back the NLA to Washington'---------let me take a wild guess and assume that such thoughts are not part of YOUR agenda.I do hope that you can find a way to discuss things professionally , however, in my heart I feel it's probably highly unlikely.
I , for the third time offer you my time to discuss this and any issue you feel worthy of discussion.
Ron Sorci
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ron -
My letter speaks of giving the letters to the ALA people, and it doesn't say a word about whether I do or do not support such an endeavor. If you are a conspiracy theorist, I guess you see people lurking behind every corner, too. My agenda is very simple and has been reiterated numerous times here, and I'll do it again for those who don't read: (1) get rid of Host International and their minions (presently called the NLA staff); (2) move NLA back to Washington where it belongs; (3) get an experienced and good association executive to build a staff; (4) revise the NLA by-laws to reorganize the association; and (5) if the CTCP continues (which I doubt), get it into the hands of somebody other than NLA and who is competent to administer it. Is there some part of that agenda that you don't understand.
By the way, the marginal notes show that this is my 140th post since April, 2000, not 400th. I think if you peruse the forums you'll see others whose numbers are similar.
I do have a law practice, and as part of it I not only serve as an arbitrator and mediator in various matters, but I am called upon to tell clients how judges and juries are going to act.
I also have a life, Ron, but it doesn;t consist of writing mis-addressed letters with no content and copiying them to a bunch of people to make myself look cute. Perhaps writing is laborious to you, but it's what I spend most of my time doing - I write my posts here in a matter of minutes, not hours. I find it interesting that both you and John both are fascinated by how I spend my time. If you were equally fascinated with answering the questions I have posed (which you think have no substance, but as to which others disagree with you). I'll talk to you - when you go back to my first response to you, explain why you wrote the letter rather than trying to deflect the chronology of the letters, and how you justify writing such a letter as an NLA director - or, alternatively, unequivocally apologizing for it - then we will address substantive issues without any insults.
By the way, the people I have called morons are the NLA staff. This is not name-calling, it is an accurate description which not even NLA directors can defend. I am not the only person who thinks he can call them that - anyone who has dealt with them can call them morons. You are a co-chair of the CTCP committee - let's hear you defend how these morons can fail to respond to communications for six weeks with someone who has paid money to go through certification, and who also happens to be an NLA member. READ THE THREADS, RON, AND ANSWER THE QUESTIONS. NO NLA DIRECTOR YET HAS ANSWERED ONE QUESTION.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jhj:
Ron -
My letter speaks of giving the letters to the ALA people, and it doesn't say a word about whether I do or do not support such an endeavor. If you are a conspiracy theorist, I guess you see people lurking behind every corner, too. My agenda is very simple and has been reiterated numerous times here, and I'll do it again for those who don't read: (1) get rid of Host International and their minions (presently called the NLA staff); (2) move NLA back to Washington where it belongs; (3) get an experienced and good association executive to build a staff; (4) revise the NLA by-laws to reorganize the association; and (5) if the CTCP continues (which I doubt), get it into the hands of somebody other than NLA and who is competent to administer it. Is there some part of that agenda that you don't understand.
By the way, the marginal notes show that this is my 140th post since April, 2000, not 400th. I think if you peruse the forums you'll see others whose numbers are similar.
I do have a law practice, and as part of it I not only serve as an arbitrator and mediator in various matters, but I am called upon to tell clients how judges and juries are going to act.
I also have a life, Ron, but it doesn;t consist of writing mis-addressed letters with no content and copiying them to a bunch of people to make myself look cute. Perhaps writing is laborious to you, but it's what I spend most of my time doing - I write my posts here in a matter of minutes, not hours. I find it interesting that both you and John both are fascinated by how I spend my time. If you were equally fascinated with answering the questions I have posed (which you think have no substance, but as to which others disagree with you). I'll talk to you - when you go back to my first response to you, explain why you wrote the letter rather than trying to deflect the chronology of the letters, and how you justify writing such a letter as an NLA director - or, alternatively, unequivocally apologizing for it - then we will address substantive issues without any insults.
By the way, the people I have called morons are the NLA staff. This is not name-calling, it is an accurate description which not even NLA directors can defend. I am not the only person who thinks he can call them that - anyone who has dealt with them can call them morons. You are a co-chair of the CTCP committee - let's hear you defend how these morons can fail to respond to communications for six weeks with someone who has paid money to go through certification, and who also happens to be an NLA member. READ THE THREADS, RON, AND ANSWER THE QUESTIONS. NO NLA DIRECTOR YET HAS ANSWERED ONE QUESTION. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

JHJ-----In response to your last post, I believe it would be appropiate for me to speak with various members of the NLA, fellow NLA directors and Bob Scott in order to properly address your various concerns. I would suggest that is a fair approach considering all the issues you raised and I certainly wouldn't want to attempt to present a response unless I've received the necessary input.
I will advise you here as each item appears to have some level of response and/or resolution.
Ron Sorci

I was asked to move these comments and this thread out of the NLA Certification Forum
since it didn't fit the overall topic. It has been done.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by B P:
O K John, first I want to refer to the Florida issue. I have found that forum very interesting (Jim you have made this one very interesting also)so I made a few phone calls about what was going on, boy did I get an earfull. First it seems that most are against a state lisence and have asked questions to try and bring out some untruths but their questions will not be answered, but that part is there battle.
After some of my own investigations, what is the real reason the NLA is pushing other associations down there to have a sit down meeting with this Florida Livery association company? They have expressed that they have no desire to do such, has something been promised to sombody that can not be delivered? Why is a for profit association that is run by a person that does not even own a limousine company being backed by the NLA? How can a for profit company (association) be treated as an association member and not a trade member? Why does the NLA recognize an association that wont devulge their membership list? I will stop here for now.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks B P for raising some points about whats been happening in Florida.
Hopefully some of those NLA director/officer type people that are not reading the
forum but who we know are reading the forum might be willing to answer some
questions.

Seems that there is a corporation in Florida called the Florida Livery Association.
This corporation represents itself to be a limousine association but in actuality is a for
profit corporation owned by a single individual. Reiterating what B P started and
expanding a little bit we have a few questions that I think should be answered by the
NLA.

1. Why does the NLA recognize a private for profit corporation as a limousine
industry industry association?
2. Why was the owner of this corporation allowed to go to Washington and
participate in lobbying efforts when he doesn't even own a limousine business?
3. Why is this same individual allowed to speak as a representative of the NLA and
discuss information and distribute news that should be disbursed from the NLA
(1689, gas guzzler, etc...)?
4. Why doesn't this for profit business have trade member status? I have been told
that this was to have occurred but to date nothing has changed.
5. How can the NLA recognize an entity that will not reveal how many members it
has?
6. How can the NLA recognize an entity that will not reveal who its members are?

This organization purports itself to speak for the limousine industry in Florida. In
actuality there are many, many companies that are not in agreement with this
organization and its agenda. The NLA by recognizing this organization as an
association does every NLA member in Florida a disservice.

I respectfully request a response from any NLA officer or director.

This question was asked in the NLA Certification Meeting Forum - did not have an opportunity to answer prior to moving our comments to this forum.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by XENEFOX Media Corporation:
Can you give some background on this for those of us that do not know the situation. How has the NLA recognized the FLA? Where is this known, advertised, or publicized?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Look in the current NLA 2000 - 2001 Directory of Members. In the Association Members Section, on Page 21 you will see a listing for the Florida Livery Association. According to the listing, this corporation has been treated as an association member since 1995.

Just to let you guys know the NLA also will put his stories in there newsletters. In defense of a few NLA directors I was told from an outside of the NLA sorce that they do not recognize his association. Hesch you asked why was he chosen to go to Washington, he is a politition not a limo operator he was used to get to some of the Florida senators, and you know the NLA's boy Barry will use everything possible. The only problem with that was the other associations said bye bye. Other guys from Florida did go but never did ask to go again, that I thought was very strange.
Like I said Rick is a decent politition, he does that well (you know how most avoid listening.
Just though you like to know the rest of the story.

Hey Hesch, you getting a little to direct aren't you? Maybe you and big Jim from Pitts should have an internet lunch. You guys killed the forum because nobody is going to answer your questions. Big Jim has many NLA points, you have real good points in Fla with that dude, but now your gettin heavy with mixen in the NLA. I guess you guys got the goat of them all. They say it should't be addressed on the forum, why not? Do you guys think maybe to many people are starting to feel the truth is killing them? Well maybe they just took some time off, but I would like to see an answer about that for profit association question. Does anybody know if Marion McCormack has got any cars or even a company anymore? Board Member?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Big Pussy B:
Hey Hesch, you getting a little to direct aren't you? Maybe you and big Jim from Pitts should have an internet lunch. You guys killed the forum because nobody is going to answer your questions. Big Jim has many NLA points, you have real good points in Fla with that dude, but now your gettin heavy with mixen in the NLA. I guess you guys got the goat of them all. They say it should't be addressed on the forum, why not? Do you guys think maybe to many people are starting to feel the truth is killing them? Well maybe they just took some time off, but I would like to see an answer about that for profit association question. Does anybody know if Marion McCormack has got any cars or even a company anymore? Board Member?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
****************
This forum has certainly brought out alot of good points, dumb points, insults and misinformation. However, I like the fact we can all state our opinions, ask questions, and respond. As for Marion, why don't you call her? Sterling Limousines, Houston Texas.
Regards
John
NLA Board Member

------------------

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Big Pussy B:
I guess you guys got the goat of them all. They say it should't be addressed on the forum, why not? Do you guys think maybe to many people are starting to feel the truth is killing them? Well maybe they just took some time off, but I would like to see an answer about that for profit association question. Does anybody know if Marion McCormack has got any cars or even a company anymore? Board Member?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Looks like nobody's going to answer any of the questions - just "stonewall" and hope everyone goes away - not a prayer. This is only the beginning.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jhj:
Looks like nobody's going to answer any of the questions - just "stonewall" and hope everyone goes away - not a prayer. This is only the beginning.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Not so Jim. Questions have been answered. You just don't like the answers. I am still working on some of your other questions. My back injury has slowed me down the last few days. Will be posting comments this week.
John
NLA Board Member
------------------


[This message has been edited by fivestaroregon (edited 09-10-2000).]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by fivestaroregon:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jhj:
Looks like nobody's going to answer any of the questions - just "stonewall" and hope everyone goes away - not a prayer. This is only the beginning.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Not so Jim. Questions have been answered. You just don't like the answers. I am still working on some of your other questions. My back injury has slowed me down the last few days. Will be posting comments this week.
John
NLA Board Member<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

John - Glad to see that someone from the NLA still is responding in the forum. Thought for a while that the word had gone forth not to reply. I hope the comments/answers that you will be posting will also address some of the issues and questions that are affecting limousine operators and NLA members in Florida (as detailed in my previous posting) as well as the questions raised by JHJ.

Agendas are being put forth in the State of Florida for the benefit of a few (one to be exact)under the NLA banner. This agenda
is without the concurrence of the 5 major
local limousine associations in Florida which represent approximately 150 companies as well as the many independent operators scattered across the state who do not belong
to a local association. These companies do not agree with the legislative proposal being brought forward and the information being disseminated under the guise of an NLA approved limousine association.

I respectfully look forward to answers forthcoming from yourself or from any other NLA director or officer willing to reply.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by fivestaroregon:
Questions have been answered. You just don't like the answers.
John
NLA Board Member<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think the time has come to define what is meant by an "answer" to a question. If I may harken far back to my graduate school days when I had an interest in linguistics and philosophy where many learned people sat around defining the functions of language, the working definition of a question that is used in academic circles is that a question is a request for information. An "answer" is a responsive communication which provides the full quantum of information asked for in the question. Anything less than all of the information asked for is not an "answer," but is merely a "response" to the question. Without looking back through the thread, I think it's fair to say that one or two questions may have been "answered." Several others, but hardly all, received a "response" rather than an "answer." The term "like" when applied to an "answer" implies some value judgment being applied, when whether a question is answered or not is an objective and quantitative determination. What you are saying, John, is that I have pointed out that questions may have been responded to but not "answered," which has nothing to do with liking or disliking an answer. Whether one "likes" or "dislikes" an answer is related to whether the question had a motivational gloss or not. We have never gotten to the point of having a question "answered" to determine whether the "answer" can be liked or disliked.

Originally posted by hesch (from Florida):
Thanks B P for raising some points about whats been happening in Florida. Hopefully some of those NLA director/officer type people that are not reading the forum but who we know are reading the forum might be willing to answer some questions.

Seems that there is a corporation in Florida called the Florida Livery Association. This corporation represents itself to be a limousine association but in actuality is a for profit corporation owned by a single individual. Reiterating what B P started and
expanding a little bit we have a few questions that I think should be answered by the NLA.

1. Why does the NLA recognize a private for profit corporation as a limousine industry industry association?
2. Why was the owner of this corporation allowed to go to Washington and participate in lobbying efforts when he doesn't even own a limousine business?
3. Why is this same individual allowed to speak as a representative of the NLA and discuss information and distribute news that should be disbursed from the NLA (1689, gas guzzler, etc...)?
4. Why doesn't this for profit business have trade member status? I have been told that this was to have occurred but to date nothing
has changed.
5. How can the NLA recognize an entity that will not reveal how many members it has?
6. How can the NLA recognize an entity that will not reveal who its members are?

This organization purports itself to speak for the limousine industry in Florida. In actuality there are many, many companies that are not in agreement with this organization and its agenda. The NLA by recognizing this organization as an association does every NLA
member in Florida a disservice.

I respectfully request a response from any NLA officer or director.


*****************
Greetings:
Not sure where you got the impression that the NLA is behind the Florida Livery
association. I can say this, "We did not provide money to them when they requested."
One of the major concerns to Carol Nelson and the rest of the board was that the
association refused to provide a complete detail list of members. I was not on the board at the time this request came up, I will have Carol Nelson contact you. Carol heads up the assoication commitee.
John Sinibaldi
NLA Board Member
P.S. You are welcome to call me 1-800-517-9555. Thanks
------------------

John:

Thank you for your response. Even though you say the NLA is not behind the Florida Livery Association, seems that the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing.
The owner of the FLA was sent to Washington to lobby legislators as part of the NLA delegation apparently by the lobbyist representing the NLA, Barry Lefkowitz. This action on the part of the NLA sure makes it look like the NLA recognizes this organization as an association.

This is not directed to you or Caroline but if this organization didn't want to reveal its membership why wouldn't the then in place board not take action to either expel or change the status of its membership. Allowing this organization to continue as an association has lent it credibility and done a disservice to current members. This is further compounded by allowing the organization to participate in lobbying efforts and to act as an NLA spokesperson in disseminating news on NLA issues.

If the FLA is a business it should be treated as a business, it should not be treated or recognized as an association.

I look forward to your comments on the above.

Hesch you are right with your question and John you are right to a certain extent. It is my understanding from the guys from the FSGTO that not only Carolyn and also x president of the NLA Alan Melton would not approve any money due to the obvious reasons mentioned. The NLA and Barry L cannot seem to realize those guys are not going to recognize a dictator that is not in the limo business talk for them. Barry L had a telephone conversation with one of the FSGTO directors and boy did he take the wrong approach. I heard of the conversation and know that guy has been following this forum, he should let everyone know the conversation.
Point being the NLA people need to realize what they are doing by following the wrong person. I feel that Hesch's questions are ligitimate and would not mind seing them answered myself. Jim you think you have issues with the NLA, you should talk to those guys in Florida.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hesch (from Florida):
Originally posted by hesch (from Florida):
Thanks B P for raising some points about whats been happening in Florida. Hopefully some of those NLA director/officer type people that are not reading the forum but who we know are reading the forum might be willing to answer some questions.

Seems that there is a corporation in Florida called the Florida Livery Association. This corporation represents itself to be a limousine association but in actuality is a for profit corporation owned by a single individual. Reiterating what B P started and
expanding a little bit we have a few questions that I think should be answered by the NLA.

1. Why does the NLA recognize a private for profit corporation as a limousine industry industry association?
2. Why was the owner of this corporation allowed to go to Washington and participate in lobbying efforts when he doesn't even own a limousine business?
3. Why is this same individual allowed to speak as a representative of the NLA and discuss information and distribute news that should be disbursed from the NLA (1689, gas guzzler, etc...)?
4. Why doesn't this for profit business have trade member status? I have been told that this was to have occurred but to date nothing
has changed.
5. How can the NLA recognize an entity that will not reveal how many members it has?
6. How can the NLA recognize an entity that will not reveal who its members are?

This organization purports itself to speak for the limousine industry in Florida. In actuality there are many, many companies that are not in agreement with this organization and its agenda. The NLA by recognizing this organization as an association does every NLA
member in Florida a disservice.

I respectfully request a response from any NLA officer or director.


*****************
Greetings:
Not sure where you got the impression that the NLA is behind the Florida Livery
association. I can say this, "We did not provide money to them when they requested."
One of the major concerns to Carol Nelson and the rest of the board was that the
association refused to provide a complete detail list of members. I was not on the board at the time this request came up, I will have Carol Nelson contact you. Carol heads up the assoication commitee.
John Sinibaldi
NLA Board Member
P.S. You are welcome to call me 1-800-517-9555. Thanks <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

------------------

John - were you trying to make another comment? Previous text is what we both had posted before. The original questions to the NLA and your initial response.

The Luddites at NLA are at it again!!!! If you are an NLA member you MAY have received by fax today a memo from Bob Scott and the NLA lobbyist, Barry Lefkowitz, advising that "Congress" is going to vote on HR1689 tomorrow. Aside from the obvious, that "Congress" doesn't vote on anything but that votes are cast by the House of Representatives and the Senate, or by various committees (after the REALLY BIG announcement they finally tell you in the second paragraph that this merely a committee vote), they ask all members to contact the members of the Committee on Commerce and tell them how important this bill is. The incredible part of this memo is that NLA attached a list of the committee members and their phone numbers - keep in mind that the vote is 10:00 A.M. tomorrow and the fax arrived after 5:00 P.M. Eastern Time. The list did not include the committee members' fax numbers, nor their e-mail addresses, despite the fact that the various directories list both, and any lobbyist worthy of the name has such information readily at hand. Of the thousand or so members of the NLA, how many do these Luddites think are going to pick up the phone and make a voice phone call to the committee members tomorrow morning at 9:00 A.M. Eastern Time (the committee probably will go into session before 10:00 A.M., so the window to make such a call is impossibly small). And who in central, mountain and pacific times zones is going to call Washington, D.C. at 8:00, 7:00 and 6:00 AM???????? Will I make such a call - nope. Would I have sent a fax - Yup. Would I have already sent an e-mail - Absolutely! I marvel at the ineptitude of the NLA staff long after it is surprising to me. And is NLA paying good money to this joke of a lobbyist who doesn't know the committee members fax numbers and e-mail addresses? Equally incredibly, the memo asks you to call a member of the committee if the member is from your state!! Is this stupid or what. With e-mail addresses, any single NLA member could have sent EACH and EVERY member of the committee a message, whether the member is from your state or not, and the committee could have been flooded with e-mail messages overnight. Instead - I'll bet there aren't a half dozen calls made in response to the memo, which will demonstrate a LACK OF INTEREST, rather than interest, by the limousine industry. Give me a break, NLA Staff - are you REALLY this incompetent or do you work at it?
As I have said repeatedly - terminate the management contract with Host Communications, get rid of Scott & Company (and this bumpkin Lefkowtiz), move the headquarters to D.C. where it belongs, hire an experienced and politically savvy association executive and a competent staff, and change the by-laws to prevent NLA from ever again coming under the control of directors who aren't watching the store.
It's not hard to believe that Lefkowitz and the NLA staff don't want this legislation to come out of committee so they can keep telling the members how hard they're working to get it out of committee and into law. They should work smarter rather than harder.
C'mon, John Sinibaldi, try and defend this stupid and amateur move by the Lexington Bunglers. Do we really want these people administering a certification program??? Whooooooops - I already won that case - sorry.

OK,

This is he most powerfull tool that the limo industry has ever had!!!! Talk to your fellow operators and get them on line. Let's get everbody up to speed with what is going on. The NLA is no different than any of youre big unions. We have little or no control on any issue and have no control over succession.

The assosiation "sucks" and the only way to dump it and form a new coilition is to get every single operator, large or small to join Limos.com. Together we can beet this B------t organization. There is power in numbers and the internet is free..........

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gold1:
OK,

This is the most powerful tool that the limo industry has ever had!!!! Talk to your fellow operators and get them on line. Let's get everbody up to speed with what is going on. The NLA is no different than any of youre big unions. We have little or no control on any issue and have no control over succession.

The association "sucks" and the only way to dump it and form a new coalition is to get every single operator, large or small to join Limos.com. Together we can beat this B------t organization. There is power in numbers and the internet is free..........
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

With all due respect to Michael and the good job he's doing at limos.com, and pointing out that I think that having as many reputable limousine companies as possible networked together and that limos.com has a great deal to offer, I must also point out that these forums can be viewed and participated in without spending a penny and without joining anything. Every limousine operator with a computer and the ability to hunt-and-peck the keyboard should be visiting these forums - since they are the ONLY forums of any efficacy at this time. If they do, they will, of course, ultimately discover the value of what limos.com offers, BUT, if there were 10 times as many companies as members here, think of what Michael could offer under those circumstances. There is power in numbers - there is power in the internet, and certainly no one at NLA has the most meager understanding of that.

Wow Gold1 -- I appreciate your "call to action" utilizing Limos.com -- thank you. First, let me state that Limos.com is not PRO or ANTI-NLA -- we are simply the facilitator of this forum so everyone can voice their opinion.

I truly wish more NLA people would come forth and defend the association because their lack of voice implies guilt.

John Sinibaldi -- thanks for staying in touch here.

James, go easy on the "moron" and other innuendoes -- every NLA director is running a highly successful limo business. As individuals, these are successful people.

The debate is the organization as a WHOLE and the administration of such.

Do I have an opinion? Of course, but vocalizing it here implies that my organization and membership constituency backs and endorses that opinion. We all know that is not true.

In reference to JRJ stated above, I somewhat agree. I give the NLA a "B" on effort by getting the FAX out, but an "F" on timeliness.

Handing me tickets to the Arizona Diamondback baseball game 5 minutes before the first pitch is fruitless; YES its great I got the tickets, but getting them 5 minutes before gametime doesn't allow me to be apart of the game.

Yes, these forums are entirely FREE and there is no need to be a "member" of our service to partake in opinions and discussions.

Michael

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jhj:
The Luddites at NLA are at it again!!!! If you are an NLA member you MAY have received by fax today a memo from Bob Scott and the NLA lobbyist, Barry Lefkowitz, advising that "Congress" is going to vote on HR1689 tomorrow. Aside from the obvious, that "Congress" doesn't vote on anything but that votes are cast by the House of Representatives and the Senate, or by various committees (after the REALLY BIG announcement they finally tell you in the second paragraph that this merely a committee vote), they ask all members to contact the members of the Committee on Commerce and tell them how important this bill is. The incredible part of this memo is that NLA attached a list of the committee members and their phone numbers - keep in mind that the vote is 10:00 A.M. tomorrow and the fax arrived after 5:00 P.M. Eastern Time. The list did not include the committee members' fax numbers, nor their e-mail addresses, despite the fact that the various directories list both, and any lobbyist worthy of the name has such information readily at hand. Of the thousand or so members of the NLA, how many do these Luddites think are going to pick up the phone and make a voice phone call to the committee members tomorrow morning at 9:00 A.M. Eastern Time (the committee probably will go into session before 10:00 A.M., so the window to make such a call is impossibly small). And who in central, mountain and pacific times zones is going to call Washington, D.C. at 8:00, 7:00 and 6:00 AM???????? Will I make such a call - nope. Would I have sent a fax - Yup. Would I have already sent an e-mail - Absolutely! I marvel at the ineptitude of the NLA staff long after it is surprising to me. And is NLA paying good money to this joke of a lobbyist who doesn't know the committee members fax numbers and e-mail addresses? Equally incredibly, the memo asks you to call a member of the committee if the member is from your state!! Is this stupid or what. With e-mail addresses, any single NLA member could have sent EACH and EVERY member of the committee a message, whether the member is from your state or not, and the committee could have been flooded with e-mail messages overnight. Instead - I'll bet there aren't a half dozen calls made in response to the memo, which will demonstrate a LACK OF INTEREST, rather than interest, by the limousine industry. Give me a break, NLA Staff - are you REALLY this incompetent or do you work at it?
As I have said repeatedly - terminate the management contract with Host Communications, get rid of Scott & Company (and this bumpkin Lefkowtiz), move the headquarters to D.C. where it belongs, hire an experienced and politically savvy association executive and a competent staff, and change the by-laws to prevent NLA from ever again coming under the control of directors who aren't watching the store.
It's not hard to believe that Lefkowitz and the NLA staff don't want this legislation to come out of committee so they can keep telling the members how hard they're working to get it out of committee and into law. They should work smarter rather than harder.
C'mon, John Sinibaldi, try and defend this stupid and amateur move by the Lexington Bunglers. Do we really want these people administering a certification program??? Whooooooops - I already won that case - sorry.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
*********************
Jim
Just got in from a meeting. I had a chance to view your comments. What a load of crap. You continue to amaze me in your continue efforts to spread misinformation concerning the NLA board members and staff. When I get home tonight and have a chance to unwind from day and play with my six year old, I will respond in detail to your outrageous post.
John
NLA Board Member
------------------


[This message has been edited by fivestaroregon (edited 09-13-2000).]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by XENEFOX Media Corporation:


James, go easy on the "moron" and other innuendoes -- every NLA director is running a highly successful limo business. As individuals, these are successful people.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Michael, Michael, Michael - I thought you were paying closer attention. I have NEVER called an director of the NLA a "moron," and I invite you to search the posts for that word to see how and when it was used. I am fully mindful that most NLA directors have achieved a measure of success in the limousine industry, although I disagree that this should in some way immunize them from criticism for the atrocious job they do as persons in a position of trust in a national trade association. I have liberally called the NLA staff incompetent, bunglers, and morons, and probably some other accurate terms. They are not defended, of course, because their incompetence, bungling and moronic administration of NLA is indefensible.

And, finally, a word on the fax memo today. Committee votes are very unpredictable and can come up unexpectedly. I have worked for a national trade association when I was younger, and I had responsibility for lobbying on the Hill, so I am fully aware of the "timing" problem when trying to rally support for or opposition to a specific action. I a also very close to a large number of elected officials, including some on Capitol Hill (please note that I am only one district removed from Bud Shuster's district http://www.house.gov/shuster/bio.htm ), so I know how they can be reached. NLA staff and the goofy lobbyist may well have a reason why they were unable to notify the membership until the last minute, and I certainly would give them the benefit of that doubt based on my personal experience. What is ridiculous however, is asking for member support when the ONLY WAY it could occur or be effective is by fax or e-mail. Regardless of the timing issue, it is ROUTINE in such efforts to solicit fax and e-mail contact because when you call a Congressman you merely talk to the patronage telephone operator who is usually the dumbest child of a wealthy constituent. Fax and e-mail are the most effective means of influencing legislation because the fax copy and a print-out of the e-mail can be stacked on the Congressman's desk and he or she can waive the sheath of papers around to justify his or her vote as being based on public support (or opposition) to a particular bill. More importantly, fax and e-mail can be counted and placed into "for" and "against" stacks, and the CONTENTS of the communication can also be weighed. I think a high school civics class can design a more effective Congressional contact campaign that the goofballs at NLA and their wacky lobbyist who apparently doesn't know any better - of course, he's unemployed if the bill passes, isn't he?????

[This message has been edited by jhj (edited 09-13-2000).]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gold1:
OK,

This is he most powerfull tool that the limo industry has ever had!!!! Talk to your fellow operators and get them on line. Let's get everbody up to speed with what is going on. The NLA is no different than any of youre big unions. We have little or no control on any issue and have no control over succession.

The assosiation "sucks" and the only way to dump it and form a new coilition is to get every single operator, large or small to join Limos.com. Together we can beet this B------t organization. There is power in numbers and the internet is free..........

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
***************
Ok Gold. The association sucks according to you. NOw for the record on this forum, please tell me what is it you want from the NLA? Why does it suck? What do you mean by the term suck? Do you have some constructive proposals to put forth? or are you just a crap kicker that doesn't have the guts to bite the bullet and provide solutions.
John
NLA Board Member

------------------

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by fivestaroregon:

Jim
Just got in from a meeting. I had a chance to view your comments. What a load of crap. You continue to amaze me in your continue efforts to spread misinformation concerning the NLA board members and staff. When I get home tonight and have a chance to unwind from day and play with my six year old, I will respond in detail to your outrageous post.
John
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

John, it is really getting tiring to hear you label things "crapola," a "load of crap" and "not so," when you say nothing else to support any such conclusions. Although it is the method of character assassination to stick labels on things without any factual support, I am challenging you to take the post which you think is a "load of crap," and respond to it sentence by sentence and tell this forum where it is wrong. Don't go slinging around disparaging comments when you don't have the first fact to support you. Was I wrong about the time zones? Was I the only person who got the fax after 5:00 PM Eastern Time? When did you get yours? Come on, John - quit being a knee jerk reaction to the criticism and tackle the matters raised head on and with some intellectual rigor and honesty, which has been in really short supply in responding to questions and criticisms in this forum.

[This message has been edited by jhj (edited 09-13-2000).]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jhj:
John, it is really getting tiring to hear you label things "crapola," a "load of crap" and "not so," when you say nothing else to support any such conclusions. Although the method of character assassination to to stick labels on things without any factual support, I am challenging you to take the post which you think is a "load of crap," and respond to it sentence by sentence and tell this forum where it is wrong. Don;t go slinging around disparaging comments when you don't have the first fact to support you. Was I wrong about the time zones? Was I the only person who got the fax after 5:00 PM Eastern Time? When did you get yours? Cone on, John - quit being a knee jerk reaction to the criticism and tackle the matters raised head on and with some intellectual rigor and honesty, which has been in really short supply in responding to questions and criticisms in this forum.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
*************
Look who's talking! Morons,b lls, sh t, etc
These are phrases you have used many times in your long winded posts. Just leaving the office now. Will be posting later. Hope to hear from "Gold" also tonight.

John
NLA Board Member

------------------

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by fivestaroregon:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jhj:
John, it is really getting tiring to hear you label things "crapola," a "load of crap" and "not so," when you say nothing else to support any such conclusions. Although the method of character assassination to to stick labels on things without any factual support, I am challenging you to take the post which you think is a "load of crap," and respond to it sentence by sentence and tell this forum where it is wrong. Don;t go slinging around disparaging comments when you don't have the first fact to support you. Was I wrong about the time zones? Was I the only person who got the fax after 5:00 PM Eastern Time? When did you get yours? Cone on, John - quit being a knee jerk reaction to the criticism and tackle the matters raised head on and with some intellectual rigor and honesty, which has been in really short supply in responding to questions and criticisms in this forum.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
*************
Look who's talking! Morons,b lls, sh t, etc
These are phrases you have used many times in your long winded posts. Just leaving the office now. Will be posting later. Hope to hear from "Gold" also tonight.

John
NLA Board Member
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

John -
I am not yet willing to accept the fact that you are incapable of analytical thinking, logic and focusing a response to very specific questions and criticisms in this forum. Because I am not yet willing to accept that, I must assume that your unsupported labeling is simply evasiveness. You take Gold1 to task for asserting that NLA "sucks," and then ask several specific questions to challenge him to support his "label." And it is proper that you should do so, for name-calling without any support for the name is exactly what I said it is, mere character-assassination. But, John, you are the biggest perpetrator of this device, for consistently throughout these forums you label - "crapola," "load of crap," (by the way do you have an anal fixation?), "long-winded," "rambling," "misinformation," etc. Yet you, just as did Gold1, have nothing behind you in your posts to justify the labels. By way of contrast, my "long-winded" posts have detailed, chapter and verse, all of the conduct and behavior which goes into the very logical conclusions I have reached. My posts are "long-winded" because they have something to say - perhaps yours are "short" and "to the point" (so you say) because, in the final analysis, you have nothing to say and are, perhaps, not up to a rigorous analytical and logical debate on ANYTHING having to do with NLA. I have given you, in my mind, the benefit of the doubt and have assumed that you have the intellectual and analytical ability to do what you have yet to do, and attributed your not doing it to an unwillingness to do so, or mere evasiveness for whatever reason. Challenging Gold1 supports my view that you have the ability, but it indicts you on the other counts, i.e., your own unwillingness to address issues raised herein, or an evasiveness to serve some presently unknown purpose. So let's get with it, go back to the last "long-winded" post and take it apart sentence by sentence and correct the "misinformation" you claim it spreads. If you don't do it, John, it will be clear that you cannot do it. You expect to hear from Gold1 to answer your questions, I expect to hear from YOU. And I've had important questions on the table for weeks without so much as a murmur from NLA directors.

[This message has been edited by jhj (edited 09-13-2000).]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jhj:
The Luddites at NLA are at it again!!!! If you are an NLA member you MAY have received by fax today a memo from Bob Scott and the NLA lobbyist, Barry Lefkowitz, advising that "Congress" is going to vote on HR1689 tomorrow. Aside from the obvious, that "Congress" doesn't vote on anything but that votes are cast by the House of Representatives and the Senate, or by various committees (after the REALLY BIG announcement they finally tell you in the second paragraph that this merely a committee vote), they ask all members to contact the members of the Committee on Commerce and tell them how important this bill is. The incredible part of this memo is that NLA attached a list of the committee members and their phone numbers - keep in mind that the vote is 10:00 A.M. tomorrow and the fax arrived after 5:00 P.M. Eastern Time. The list did not include the committee members' fax numbers, nor their e-mail addresses, despite the fact that the various directories list both, and any lobbyist worthy of the name has such information readily at hand. Of the thousand or so members of the NLA, how many do these Luddites think are going to pick up the phone and make a voice phone call to the committee members tomorrow morning at 9:00 A.M. Eastern Time (the committee probably will go into session before 10:00 A.M., so the window to make such a call is impossibly small). And who in central, mountain and pacific times zones is going to call Washington, D.C. at 8:00, 7:00 and 6:00 AM???????? Will I make such a call - nope. Would I have sent a fax - Yup. Would I have already sent an e-mail - Absolutely! I marvel at the ineptitude of the NLA staff long after it is surprising to me. And is NLA paying good money to this joke of a lobbyist who doesn't know the committee members fax numbers and e-mail addresses? Equally incredibly, the memo asks you to call a member of the committee if the member is from your state!! Is this stupid or what. With e-mail addresses, any single NLA member could have sent EACH and EVERY member of the committee a message, whether the member is from your state or not, and the committee could have been flooded with e-mail messages overnight. Instead - I'll bet there aren't a half dozen calls made in response to the memo, which will demonstrate a LACK OF INTEREST, rather than interest, by the limousine industry. Give me a break, NLA Staff - are you REALLY this incompetent or do you work at it?
As I have said repeatedly - terminate the management contract with Host Communications, get rid of Scott & Company (and this bumpkin Lefkowtiz), move the headquarters to D.C. where it belongs, hire an experienced and politically savvy association executive and a competent staff, and change the by-laws to prevent NLA from ever again coming under the control of directors who aren't watching the store.
It's not hard to believe that Lefkowitz and the NLA staff don't want this legislation to come out of committee so they can keep telling the members how hard they're working to get it out of committee and into law. They should work smarter rather than harder.
C'mon, John Sinibaldi, try and defend this stupid and amateur move by the Lexington Bunglers. Do we really want these people administering a certification program??? Whooooooops - I already won that case - sorry.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ok Jim, let's look at the letter. I will try to get Michael to post this letter, so everyone can take a look at it.

The letter states in the first First paragaph that "Congress is prepared to cast a vote on HR1689. Do you know what the word prepare means? You state in your post that the letter said " that Congress will be voting tomorrow." Then of course you bashed both Scott And Barry. Well Jim, that not opening statement. Once again you have distorted a fact and twisted the statement to suit your needs for bashing Bob Scott and Barry and NLA.

The annoncement is big! If you can't get the committee to look and vote on a bill it has no change to get to the floor of Congress. What's the big deal about the time you got the fax. There was alot of work behind the scenes just to get to this point. Bob & Barry, the NLA and the ITLA and many others worked very hard to get this in front of the commitee for a vote. Don't know about your rep in Congress, but mine answers the phone on a 24hrs basis. They have a great staff. I am sure offices also have answering machines. The point was to get the word to these key commitee members.Listening to a voice is better than an e-mail or fax.

You knew this has been in the works for a long time. Did you ever take the time to make a call to voice support for this bill?

It seems to upset you to think that this bill might get passed. Your statement that "Barry and the NLA staff don't want to get this out of commitee, so that they can keep saying, we are working hard for you." This statement of yours is just plain dumb, stupid etc. Your personal venteta against the NLA in peticular Bob Scott has serioulsy clouded your judgement.

The team did do a good job. The NLA will do a good job on the certification program. The Chicago meeting is just one step in gathing thoughts to make this program a success. As for you JIm, you have your own personal agenda or should I say axe to grind. This does not make you a person to be taken seriosly.
John
NLA Board Member

------------------

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jhj:
John -
I am not yet willing to accept the fact that you are incapable of analytical thinking, logic and focusing a response to very specific questions and criticisms in this forum. Because I am not yet willing to accept that, I must assume that your unsupported labeling is simply evasiveness. You take Gold1 to task for asserting that NLA "sucks," and then ask several specific questions to challenge him to support his "label." And it is proper that you should do so, for name-calling without any support for the name is exactly what I said it is, mere character-assassination. But, John, you are the biggest perpetrator of this device, for consistently throughout these forums you label - "crapola," "load of crap," (by the way do you have an anal fixation?), "long-winded," "rambling," "misinformation," etc. Yet you, just as did Gold1, have nothing behind you in your posts to justify the labels. By way of contrast, my "long-winded" posts have detailed, chapter and verse, all of the conduct and behavior which goes into the very logical conclusions I have reached. My posts are "long-winded" because they have something to say - perhaps yours are "short" and "to the point" (so you say) because, in the final analysis, you have nothing to say and are, perhaps, not up to a rigorous analytical and logical debate on ANYTHING having to do with NLA. I have given you, in my mind, the benefit of the doubt and have assumed that you have the intellectual and analytical ability to do what you have yet to do, and attributed your not doing it to an unwillingness to do so, or mere evasiveness for whatever reason. Challenging Gold1 supports my view that you have the ability, but it indicts you on the other counts, i.e., your own unwillingness to address issues raised herein, or an evasiveness to serve some presently unknown purpose. So let's get with it, go back to the last "long-winded" post and take it apart sentence by sentence and correct the "misinformation" you claim it spreads. If you don't do it, John, it will be clear that you cannot do it. You expect to hear from Gold1 to answer your questions, I expect to hear from YOU. And I've had important questions on the table for weeks without so much as a murmur from NLA directors.

[This message has been edited by jhj (edited 09-13-2000).]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

*********

Jim

Gold1 said "NLA Sucks" I just asked him to post his objections. I would be happy to address them. He can even contact me by phone or e-mail. I'm not hiding. But its hard to address a problem if someone doesn't communicate.
John
NLA Board Member

------------------

John -
You said:
The letter states in the first First paragaph that "Congress is prepared to cast a vote on HR1689. Do you know what the word prepare means? You state in your post that the letter said " that Congress will be voting tomorrow." Then of course you bashed both Scott And Barry. Well Jim, that not opening statement. Once again you have distorted a fact and twisted the statement to suit your needs for bashing Bob Scott and Barry and NLA.
My comment:
The memo said, in pertinent part in the first paragraph, "One of the most exciting events in the history of the limousine industry is taking place tomorrow (Thursday) at 10:00 AM. After a year-and-a-half of hard work and a lot of footwork by the NLA and its members, Congress is prepared to cast a vote on HR 1689." John, if you think there's a substantive difference between the wording of that paragraph and my paraphrase "Congress will be voting tomorrow," you are simply semantically challenged. The point I was making was that these geniuses are apparently so unfamiliar with the manner in which legislation is enacted that they don't know that "Congress" doesn't vote on anything (except in the unusual case of a Joint Session, such as when war is being declared). They ballyhooed this event when, in fact, all that is happening is that the bill may be voted out of committee.

You said:
What's the big deal about the time you got the fax.
My comment:
I didn't make any big deal about when I got the fax. Michael complained about it being late. I, on the other hand, made it clear that my legislative and lobbying experience made it perfectly understandable that a committee vote may occur on short notice. READ THE POSTS, JOHN. I, however, did point out that it was STUPID to fax the letter to NLA members without fax and e-mail addresses for the reasons in my post.

You said:
There was alot of work behind the scenes just to get to this point. Bob & Barry, the NLA and the ITLA and many others worked very hard to get this in front of the commitee for a vote.
My comment:
Did I say their wasn't?

You said:
Don't know about your rep in Congress, but mine answers the phone on a 24 hrs basis. They have a great staff. I am sure offices also have answering machines. The point was to get the word to these key commitee members. Listening to a voice is better than an e-mail or fax.
My comment:
John, if you think calling and giving a 15 second message (which is what the memo asked NLA members to do) is more effective than a fax or an e-mail, you have never been in Washington, you have not even the remotest acquaintance with the way the Hill works, or you are simply a fool.

You said:
You knew this has been in the works for a long time. Did you ever take the time to make a call to voice support for this bill?
My comments:
I don't need to call Congressmen. If I feel something is important to me, I know how to be effective. The general public who doesn't know anybody in or anything about Washington makes blind phone calls to MC staffs. I don't care to discuss in public the manner in which I work the legislative apparatus on matters such as this. And by the way, John, the bill is far more important to some NLA members than others, such as those who area of operations spans state lines. Our company happens to fall in that situation. Be assured that my input is far more significant and important than making a phone call to the "girl who answers" my Congressman's phone. Please don't insult my intelligence, John. I've been there and done that. My kids have all worked for either House or Senate members, I have spent a great deal of time in Congressional offices, and I know Congressmen and Senators on a social basis, and I KNOW what works and what doesn't - and what the public (such as you) are led to believe works.

You said:
It seems to upset you to think that this bill might get passed.
My comment:
To the contrary, John, you need some developmental reading assistance.

You said:
Your statement that "Barry and the NLA staff don't want to get this out of commitee, so that they can keep saying, we are working hard for you." This statement of yours is just plain dumb, stupid etc. Your personal venteta [sic] against the NLA in peticular [sic] Bob Scott has serioulsy clouded your judgement.
My comment:
What reason can you think of for such bungling in trying to get NLA members to contact members of the committee? Reflecting on it, perhaps you're right, John. Maybe they really do want to get the legislation passed but are even more inept than I gave them credit for. So inept that it makes it look like they are counterproductive. So when the committee members compare notes tomorrow wheh they go into session and observe that six limousine operators called about the committee vots, they will simply conclude that there is weak support for the bill. NLA could have had hundreds and hundreds of e-mail or faxes stream into the committee overnight - not to do so was DUMB, John, not my comments.

You said:
The team did do a good job.
My comments:
On what? The lobbying for the wording of the bill? Probably. I have no reason to believe otherwise. On getting NLA members to contact committee members today - they SUCK!
You said:
The NLA will do a good job on the certification program.
My comments:
I'm really tired trying to join issue with no more than a cheerleader. Yah, yah, John. We've heard it before. Rest assured when the program fails or is changed beyond all recognition, I'll be here to watch you eat those words.

You said:
The Chicago meeting is just one step in gathing thoughts to make this program a success.
My comments:
John, you are already laying the groundwork for making light of the input in Chicago because you know there is a firestorm brewing and the certification committee plans to ignore that input and later claim that there was input from OTHERS that supported different views.

You said:
As for you JIm, you have your own personal agenda or should I say axe to grind.
My comments:
So now anyone who criticizes the incompetent morons at NLA headquarters has an ax to grind? If so, you're right, and I'm grinding away and will continue to grind and grind until Scott & Co. are gone.

You said:
This does not make you a person to be taken seriosly.
My comment:
Everyone has to assess their own situation, John. And then proceed at their own risk.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jhj:
The Luddites at NLA are at it again!!!! If you are an NLA member you MAY have received by fax today a memo from Bob Scott and the NLA lobbyist, Barry Lefkowitz, advising that "Congress" is going to vote on HR1689 tomorrow. Aside from the obvious, that "Congress" doesn't vote on anything but that votes are cast by the House of Representatives and the Senate, or by various committees (after the REALLY BIG announcement they finally tell you in the second paragraph that this merely a committee vote), they ask all members to contact the members of the Committee on Commerce and tell them how important this bill is. The incredible part of this memo is that NLA attached a list of the committee members and their phone numbers - keep in mind that the vote is 10:00 A.M. tomorrow and the fax arrived after 5:00 P.M. Eastern Time. The list did not include the committee members' fax numbers, nor their e-mail addresses, despite the fact that the various directories list both, and any lobbyist worthy of the name has such information readily at hand. Of the thousand or so members of the NLA, how many do these Luddites think are going to pick up the phone and make a voice phone call to the committee members tomorrow morning at 9:00 A.M. Eastern Time (the committee probably will go into session before 10:00 A.M., so the window to make such a call is impossibly small). And who in central, mountain and pacific times zones is going to call Washington, D.C. at 8:00, 7:00 and 6:00 AM???????? Will I make such a call - nope. Would I have sent a fax - Yup. Would I have already sent an e-mail - Absolutely! I marvel at the ineptitude of the NLA staff long after it is surprising to me. And is NLA paying good money to this joke of a lobbyist who doesn't know the committee members fax numbers and e-mail addresses? Equally incredibly, the memo asks you to call a member of the committee if the member is from your state!! Is this stupid or what. With e-mail addresses, any single NLA member could have sent EACH and EVERY member of the committee a message, whether the member is from your state or not, and the committee could have been flooded with e-mail messages overnight. Instead - I'll bet there aren't a half dozen calls made in response to the memo, which will demonstrate a LACK OF INTEREST, rather than interest, by the limousine industry. Give me a break, NLA Staff - are you REALLY this incompetent or do you work at it?
As I have said repeatedly - terminate the management contract with Host Communications, get rid of Scott & Company (and this bumpkin Lefkowtiz), move the headquarters to D.C. where it belongs, hire an experienced and politically savvy association executive and a competent staff, and change the by-laws to prevent NLA from ever again coming under the control of directors who aren't watching the store.
It's not hard to believe that Lefkowitz and the NLA staff don't want this legislation to come out of committee so they can keep telling the members how hard they're working to get it out of committee and into law. They should work smarter rather than harder.
C'mon, John Sinibaldi, try and defend this stupid and amateur move by the Lexington Bunglers. Do we really want these people administering a certification program??? Whooooooops - I already won that case - sorry.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The votes have been counted. NLA Scores Congressional Victory for its members. It should also be noted that the ITLA also played a major role in working with various COngressional members.

Based on many of your Posts in the past Jim, your worst nightmare has occured.

If you had any real experience in DC, you should have know that planned commitee votes are sometimes staged at the last minute. That why that fax was sent so late in the day. Washington does not work on the same time frame like you, me or Michael. Another fact which needs to be clearly stated is that less the 10% of bills introduced ever make it to the floor of Congress for a vote. The commitee unanimoulsy voted for passage of H.R. 1689 for consideration of the House of Representatives.

Everyone needs now to call the their House Representatives and urge a yes vote on HR1689.

John
NLA Board Member

------------------

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hesch (from Florida):
Originally posted by hesch (from Florida):
Thanks B P for raising some points about whats been happening in Florida. Hopefully some of those NLA director/officer type people that are not reading the forum but who we know are reading the forum might be willing to answer some questions.

Seems that there is a corporation in Florida called the Florida Livery Association. This corporation represents itself to be a limousine association but in actuality is a for profit corporation owned by a single individual. Reiterating what B P started and
expanding a little bit we have a few questions that I think should be answered by the NLA.

1. Why does the NLA recognize a private for profit corporation as a limousine industry industry association?
2. Why was the owner of this corporation allowed to go to Washington and participate in lobbying efforts when he doesn't even own a limousine business?
3. Why is this same individual allowed to speak as a representative of the NLA and discuss information and distribute news that should be disbursed from the NLA (1689, gas guzzler, etc...)?
4. Why doesn't this for profit business have trade member status? I have been told that this was to have occurred but to date nothing
has changed.
5. How can the NLA recognize an entity that will not reveal how many members it has?
6. How can the NLA recognize an entity that will not reveal who its members are?

This organization purports itself to speak for the limousine industry in Florida. In actuality there are many, many companies that are not in agreement with this organization and its agenda. The NLA by recognizing this organization as an association does every NLA
member in Florida a disservice.

I respectfully request a response from any NLA officer or director.


*****************
Greetings:
Not sure where you got the impression that the NLA is behind the Florida Livery
association. I can say this, "We did not provide money to them when they requested."
One of the major concerns to Carol Nelson and the rest of the board was that the
association refused to provide a complete detail list of members. I was not on the board at the time this request came up, I will have Carol Nelson contact you. Carol heads up the assoication commitee.
John Sinibaldi
NLA Board Member
P.S. You are welcome to call me 1-800-517-9555. Thanks <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

John,
These are excerpts from postings by FLA HQ, in Limo.con forum. This is one of the places people get the impression the NLA is behined the FLA.

The state FLA is very willing to discuss and work with others on this bill. Mr. Barry Lefkowitz of MGR, the NLA's Washington lobbyist, has attempted to invite the local associations to hold a forum with the state FLA.

When the state FLA was invited to join the NLA for several days of meeting on Capitol Hill

The NLA, and the FLA, have testified before the USDOT regarding the rules changes and have been working to get an exemption to the rules passed for luxury vehicles.

The limousine industry has for several years been working very hard on HR 1689 in the US Congress. Mr Barry Lefkowitz of MGR has been working very very hard on that bill. And one day before the bill was scheduled to be presented, the ITLA interrupted the process.

Signed,
Paulie Walnuts

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Paulie Walnuts:
John,
These are excerpts from postings by FLA HQ, in Limo.con forum. This is one of the places people get the impression the NLA is behined the FLA.

The state FLA is very willing to discuss and work with others on this bill. Mr. Barry Lefkowitz of MGR, the NLA's Washington lobbyist, has attempted to invite the local associations to hold a forum with the state FLA.

When the state FLA was invited to join the NLA for several days of meeting on Capitol Hill

The NLA, and the FLA, have testified before the USDOT regarding the rules changes and have been working to get an exemption to the rules passed for luxury vehicles.

The limousine industry has for several years been working very hard on HR 1689 in the US Congress. Mr Barry Lefkowitz of MGR has been working very very hard on that bill. And one day before the bill was scheduled to be presented, the ITLA interrupted the process.

Signed,
Paulie Walnuts

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Paulie

Thanks for your post. I will make some calls today to get more information concerning this matter. I will get back to you.
John
NLA Board Member

------------------

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by fivestaroregon:
If you had any real experience in DC, you should have know that planned commitee votes are sometimes staged at the last minute. That why that fax was sent so late in the day. Washington does not work on the same time frame like you, me or Michael.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Duhhhhh! John, at least I read what I'm responding to. Can you read, are you impaired in that regard? But of course, it now occurs to me - you haven't responded to the questions posed about NLA because you can't read them! What other reason could there be for ignoring two (count 'em, John, two) posts where I (me, JHJ) pointed out that committee votes come suddenly. In other words, dingbat, I (me, JHJ) defended the lateness of the NLA fax because I (me, JHJ) had REAL experience in Washington and know how and why votes come up suddenly. What you don't come to grips with, since you apparently can't read, is why the inept morons in Lexington didn't give fax numbers and e-mail addresses to us, AND STILL HAVEN'T. My worst nightmare, John, is trying to intellectualize with ambitious semi-literates.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Florida Livery Assoc. HQ:
Just a few notes about efforts in Washington:

HR 1689 - Not Dead ! It's moving and will likely be on the floor in Sept or Oct. More key members in Congress are joining on as co sponsors.

Gas Guzzler - Not Dead ! Support is continuing to grow among Congressional members, many of whom have provide written support to repeal that tax.

Hours of Service Rules Change - Dead for now. Congress voted to eliminate funding the USDOT would need to impliment any rules change. No money ... no rules change.

Overtime Wage - Many in Congress have sent letters to the US Dept of Labor regarding this issue. Congress is on our side and wants to help. Keep the faith all.

That's news is a flash.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

John:

To support what Paulie Walnuts said in his previous post, these statements were taken directly from this forum (end of page 1).
It sure sounds like the owner of the FLA is disseminating news for the NLA.

John, we know that you have been involved in exchanging comments, answers, love notes, hugs and kisses with JHJ but we respectfully are still waiting for answers to our Florida questions. I must give you credit for hanging out front and taking the brunt of the questions and NLA criticism. I don't know if you are brave or a masochist.

"THE SILENCE OF THE OTHER NLA OFFICERS AND DIRECTORS IS DEAFENING".

WOW - I've spent the past three hours reading this whole section (between answering calls). Not excatly what I was expected, but then in a strange way it was.

I'm from Massachusetts and when our association (New England Livery Assocation) holds it's quaterly meetings, I attend to network with others and to get the scoop of whats going on. I don't normally have the time to sit and read all the forum post for hours upon hours to get the industry news. At these meetings there always seems to be one person that just can't take what is offered and deal with it - they have to keep hashing and rehashing the same point over and over again.

I'm not saying that the point is not valid, but if you know you are not going to get a straight answer, look elsewhere for the answer!

Call me stupid, but I look at the whole picture and not just the "bent" edges. I like Barry L., I've meet him a few time when he's attended out quarterly meeting and our annual trade show (cheap plug for the NELA). I got the news about the vote from an NELA board member who got the fax from the NLA on Wed. 9/6. The 9/6 fax, that I gather was only sent to associations and key people to gather support contained telephone, fax, e-mail of Barry and his MGR group that I'm sure would have been more than happy to send out fax and e-mail address of congress members. I just found a copy of that fax and it even containted a copy letter to send to congress members. This is all after the fact I know, but to people who wanted to spreed the news of this and did, I'm sure that the congressmens offices DID in fact get letters and phone calls from operators to urge their support of this bill.

I forgot to mention, Barry even called me personally Monday afternoon (9/11) to have our company call our rep. who serves on the committee that just took this vote. Being the good association member that I am (both NELA & NLA) I called my fellow operators in the area as well as called my rep. to get his support to pass this "committee vote".

I didn't get the general NLA member fax till 5:35pm on wed. 9/13. I thought it was odd that I didn't get it till then, but I saw it as more of an information tool. I got the victory fax at 10:11pm thur. 9/14. So the NLA toots it's own horn. It wasn't like they didn't mention the ITLA at all.

This issue directly involves my business, thus it is important to me, and I'm going to back it anyway or with anyone I can.

Going on to other issues, I first heard about this training program fiasco at one of our quaterly meeting. I was upset to see that the NLA would do this to it's members. After it was explained, our BOD took concensus of the members and responed to the NLA with a harsh non-indorsment of this program. (letter to the NLA was featured in one of the trade mag. - limo digest). All that was to show that there is good and bad with everything.

I know that peoples feeling run much deeper than this and after reading these pages - Yes there are problems, but not enough to through in the towel and oust them all.

I've been doing this for 13 years and have always considered our company small, and with running it - I don't have the time to try and run for any board positions, NLA or NELA. I don't feel that if I did run for the NLA that I could do anything to change the exsisting "establisment" anyways. But I don't feel that way with the NELA. If I had the time I'd run for them in a heartbeat. And with them behind me then I feel I could fight what ever needs fighting with the NLA.

The point of this is, that I urge everyone to team up with their local assocation (the leigitiment ones) to fight with or against the big guys. Power in numbers!!!

Steve Thibodeau
Magic Carpet Limousine
Mansfield, MA
508-339-3445

------------------

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hesch (from Florida):
John - were you trying to make another comment? Previous text is what we both had posted before. The original questions to the NLA and your initial response.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dear Paulie Walnuts and my other friends in this forum:
As I run a very small company such as most of thos on this forum (except our good lawyer in Pitts who doesn't have anything better to do with his life), and as I don't spend as much time on this forum to respond as much as I would like, I do need to assure you that Mr. Gonzales is not a spokesperson for the NLA. There are board of directors who would be glad to answer my questions that you may have. The other issue I would like to address is Association Issues. As you know, I represent the State and Local Associations across the country when I attend the quarterly NLA meeting, which will be in 2 weeks. Our committee will address your questions and concerns when we attend this meeting. I need full board approval when making changes/additions to our structure. Be patient. Your mom is working on this diligently. By the way, JHJ, I don't know you and don't consider you one of my kids. Hey guys, I guess it's my turn to take the bashing from this guy now. There are some legitimate concerns addressed in this forum and others are just in outer space. Get a life, babe. And, DEAN, I am surprised at your remarks about the NLA, tell the real reason why you left, or were you asked to leave???? As for the NLA, it's a great organization that is working with other related organizations for your benefit. And it is the only organization that represents you exclusively. Great news takes time. Don't be an impatient baby, you'll get your answers, stomping your feet doesn't get you your way in my house, but reasonable requests do. This post is not intended to be directed at any one person, but rather to answer some of the legitimate concerns posted in this forum. Have a great day, JHJ, hopefully someone will call you soon for limo service or maybe a convict will need legal advice so you will something to pass your boring time. None of us have the time to sit here and hold your hand. Return phone calls to the people that you accuse of not responding to you. As to the rest of my guys and gals reading this comment,
Fondly,
Your Mom
Carolyn in Maryland

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Carolyn:
Dear Paulie Walnuts and my other friends in this forum:
As I run a very small company such as most of thos on this forum (except our good lawyer in Pitts who doesn't have anything better to do with his life), and as I don't spend as much time on this forum to respond as much as I would like, I do need to assure you that Mr. Gonzales is not a spokesperson for the NLA. There are board of directors who would be glad to answer my questions that you may have. The other issue I would like to address is Association Issues. As you know, I represent the State and Local Associations across the country when I attend the quarterly NLA meeting, which will be in 2 weeks. Our committee will address your questions and concerns when we attend this meeting. I need full board approval when making changes/additions to our structure. Be patient. Your mom is working on this diligently. By the way, JHJ, I don't know you and don't consider you one of my kids. Hey guys, I guess it's my turn to take the bashing from this guy now. There are some legitimate concerns addressed in this forum and others are just in outer space. Get a life, babe. And, DEAN, I am surprised at your remarks about the NLA, tell the real reason why you left, or were you asked to leave???? As for the NLA, it's a great organization that is working with other related organizations for your benefit. And it is the only organization that represents you exclusively. Great news takes time. Don't be an impatient baby, you'll get your answers, stomping your feet doesn't get you your way in my house, but reasonable requests do. This post is not intended to be directed at any one person, but rather to answer some of the legitimate concerns posted in this forum. Have a great day, JHJ, hopefully someone will call you soon for limo service or maybe a convict will need legal advice so you will something to pass your boring time. None of us have the time to sit here and hold your hand. Return phone calls to the people that you accuse of not responding to you. As to the rest of my guys and gals reading this comment,
Fondly,
Your Mom
Carolyn in Maryland<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Carolyn, Tell the truth!! I left of my own free will and when I wanted to. I am much happier on the Limousine Industry Council, the research and historical arm of the chauffeured transportation industry. The NLA owes me a public apology on the livery coach case. I know I won't get one, but then again, I am here and livery coach is gone. Justice was served in spite of certain board members. Enjoy marketing to your so-called 10,600 industry operators. I enjoy interacting with the full spectrum-well over 20,000 solid companies. Have a nice day and keep up the good work with the associations.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Carolyn:
Dear Paulie Walnuts and my other friends in this forum:
As I run a very small company such as most of thos on this forum (except our good lawyer in Pitts who doesn't have anything better to do with his life), and as I don't spend as much time on this forum to respond as much as I would like, I do need to assure you that Mr. Gonzales is not a spokesperson for the NLA. There are board of directors who would be glad to answer my questions that you may have. The other issue I would like to address is Association Issues. As you know, I represent the State and Local Associations across the country when I attend the quarterly NLA meeting, which will be in 2 weeks. Our committee will address your questions and concerns when we attend this meeting. I need full board approval when making changes/additions to our structure. Be patient. Your mom is working on this diligently. By the way, JHJ, I don't know you and don't consider you one of my kids. Hey guys, I guess it's my turn to take the bashing from this guy now. There are some legitimate concerns addressed in this forum and others are just in outer space. Get a life, babe. And, DEAN, I am surprised at your remarks about the NLA, tell the real reason why you left, or were you asked to leave???? As for the NLA, it's a great organization that is working with other related organizations for your benefit. And it is the only organization that represents you exclusively. Great news takes time. Don't be an impatient baby, you'll get your answers, stomping your feet doesn't get you your way in my house, but reasonable requests do. This post is not intended to be directed at any one person, but rather to answer some of the legitimate concerns posted in this forum. Have a great day, JHJ, hopefully someone will call you soon for limo service or maybe a convict will need legal advice so you will something to pass your boring time. None of us have the time to sit here and hold your hand. Return phone calls to the people that you accuse of not responding to you. As to the rest of my guys and gals reading this comment,
Fondly,
Your Mom
Carolyn in Maryland<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Another "cheerleader" for NLA. Rah-rah-rah! Sis-boom-rah! Must have taken the required course in Character Assassination 101 from the other NLA directors. Hey, "Mom" - do you have anything of substance to say? By the way, sis, I don't do small time criminal work, and I'm sure you can't afford me, so there's no need to make comments about what I do with my time since you aren't eligible for any of it. Since no one from NLA can answer any of the questions posed, including you, and the rest of the NLA directors are afraid to come out of the woodwork, did they dust you off and trot you out to lead a few cheers? As for someone calling us soon for limo work - forget it, sis, our cars are all busy. We add about a car a month to our fleet - amazing what contacts in the corporate community can do! Do you have any, or are you busy carrying the town drunks around to strip joints at discount rates? I would have hoped you had something constructive to say, or could contribute to answering the important questions that have been raised in these forums, but since you chose insults instead I'm glad to give them back to you.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Carolyn:
This post is not intended to be directed at any one person, but rather to answer some of the legitimate concerns posted in this forum.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Really, now!!! Then who was it directed at? As for "answering some of the legitimate concerns posted in this forum" - duhhhhh, did you forget that part of the post?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jhj:
Really, now!!! Then who was it directed at? As for "answering some of the legitimate concerns posted in this forum" - duhhhhh, did you forget that part of the post?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Jim
Would we be able to agree that we should be urging all operators to call their rep's in Congress and ask for a YES vote?
John
NLA Board Member

------------------

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by magiccarpetlimo:
WOW - I've spent the past three hours reading this whole section (between answering calls). Not excatly what I was expected, but then in a strange way it was.

I'm from Massachusetts and when our association (New England Livery Assocation) holds it's quaterly meetings, I attend to network with others and to get the scoop of whats going on. I don't normally have the time to sit and read all the forum post for hours upon hours to get the industry news. At these meetings there always seems to be one person that just can't take what is offered and deal with it - they have to keep hashing and rehashing the same point over and over again.

I'm not saying that the point is not valid, but if you know you are not going to get a straight answer, look elsewhere for the answer!

Call me stupid, but I look at the whole picture and not just the "bent" edges. I like Barry L., I've meet him a few time when he's attended out quarterly meeting and our annual trade show (cheap plug for the NELA). I got the news about the vote from an NELA board member who got the fax from the NLA on Wed. 9/6. The 9/6 fax, that I gather was only sent to associations and key people to gather support contained telephone, fax, e-mail of Barry and his MGR group that I'm sure would have been more than happy to send out fax and e-mail address of congress members. I just found a copy of that fax and it even containted a copy letter to send to congress members. This is all after the fact I know, but to people who wanted to spreed the news of this and did, I'm sure that the congressmens offices DID in fact get letters and phone calls from operators to urge their support of this bill.

I forgot to mention, Barry even called me personally Monday afternoon (9/11) to have our company call our rep. who serves on the committee that just took this vote. Being the good association member that I am (both NELA & NLA) I called my fellow operators in the area as well as called my rep. to get his support to pass this "committee vote".

I didn't get the general NLA member fax till 5:35pm on wed. 9/13. I thought it was odd that I didn't get it till then, but I saw it as more of an information tool. I got the victory fax at 10:11pm thur. 9/14. So the NLA toots it's own horn. It wasn't like they didn't mention the ITLA at all.

This issue directly involves my business, thus it is important to me, and I'm going to back it anyway or with anyone I can.

Going on to other issues, I first heard about this training program fiasco at one of our quaterly meeting. I was upset to see that the NLA would do this to it's members. After it was explained, our BOD took concensus of the members and responed to the NLA with a harsh non-indorsment of this program. (letter to the NLA was featured in one of the trade mag. - limo digest). All that was to show that there is good and bad with everything.

I know that peoples feeling run much deeper than this and after reading these pages - Yes there are problems, but not enough to through in the towel and oust them all.

I've been doing this for 13 years and have always considered our company small, and with running it - I don't have the time to try and run for any board positions, NLA or NELA. I don't feel that if I did run for the NLA that I could do anything to change the exsisting "establisment" anyways. But I don't feel that way with the NELA. If I had the time I'd run for them in a heartbeat. And with them behind me then I feel I could fight what ever needs fighting with the NLA.

The point of this is, that I urge everyone to team up with their local assocation (the leigitiment ones) to fight with or against the big guys. Power in numbers!!!

Steve Thibodeau
Magic Carpet Limousine
Mansfield, MA
508-339-3445

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
******************
Hi Steve
Thanks for your comments. I was just coming on the board when I started to hear about concerns from your association and others. If I remember,did one of your members lose a contract because there were not on this program?

I believe this program will benefit all those that are interested in providing a level of certification for its employees. I can tell you that as a board member, I would like to incorporate other programs and come to some sort of universal program that the majority of NLA members would endorse. That's why we are having a meeting in Chicago on the 20th for input.

I would be interested if you call me or e-mail me or use this forum to communicate our ideals on this subject.
John
NLA Board Member
1-800-517-9555 Five Star Limousine Service

------------------

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Carolyn:
Dear Paulie Walnuts and my other friends in this forum:
As I run a very small company such as most of thos on this forum (except our good lawyer in Pitts who doesn't have anything better to do with his life), and as I don't spend as much time on this forum to respond as much as I would like, I do need to assure you that Mr. Gonzales is not a spokesperson for the NLA. There are board of directors who would be glad to answer my questions that you may have. The other issue I would like to address is Association Issues. As you know, I represent the State and Local Associations across the country when I attend the quarterly NLA meeting, which will be in 2 weeks. Our committee will address your questions and concerns when we attend this meeting. I need full board approval when making changes/additions to our structure. Be patient. Your mom is working on this diligently. By the way, JHJ, I don't know you and don't consider you one of my kids. Hey guys, I guess it's my turn to take the bashing from this guy now. There are some legitimate concerns addressed in this forum and others are just in outer space. Get a life, babe. And, DEAN, I am surprised at your remarks about the NLA, tell the real reason why you left, or were you asked to leave???? As for the NLA, it's a great organization that is working with other related organizations for your benefit. And it is the only organization that represents you exclusively. Great news takes time. Don't be an impatient baby, you'll get your answers, stomping your feet doesn't get you your way in my house, but reasonable requests do. This post is not intended to be directed at any one person, but rather to answer some of the legitimate concerns posted in this forum. Have a great day, JHJ, hopefully will call you soon for limo service or maybe a convict will need legal advice so you will something to pass your boring time. None of us have the time to sit here and hold your hand. Return phone calls to the people that you accuse of not responding to you. As to the rest of my guys and gals reading this comment,
Fondly,
Your Mom
Carolyn in Maryland<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dear Mom:

Thanks for coming out of the NLA closet and into the light. Seriously, thanks for responding. We look forward to getting some of the answers to our questions in regards to the Florida Livery Association and its owner after you and your committee meet.
I will mark my calender accordingly.

Thanks
Hesch (from Florida)

To all,
I agree with a lot of your points concerning some of the recent set backs and flaws of the
NLA. Was CTCP a mistake? Yes. Can it be fixed? I believe so. Do the by-laws need to be changed? Yes. Do they need to be abided by? Absolutely. Do we, the NLA, need changes?
Sure. Should some directors get the boot? It looks that way. Maybe a new executive director?
My opinion of some needed changes. We need an annual meeting. We need to have reps
from each association that will work closely with the NLA Board and Executive Director.
A web site that allows members to log in such as this forum. A budget (room, meals,
airfare, etc.) that would allow legitimate small operators who are willing, to sit on the board.
My opinion of what we don’t need in the NLA. People, like jhj who don’t have a good
thing to say about anyone, and who can only criticize and analyze the statements,
character and actions of others. Ever heard of don’t burn your bridges behind you, those
who give respect get respect, you get further with sugar than you do with salt. Didn’t your elders teach you anything. I would think that some one with as many politician friends as yourself would have learned some political savvy. You act like a child that repeats I want it, I want it, I want it, until his parent give in. Got a guy in Florida like you, nobody listens to him either.
I bitch and moan to the NLA on a regular basis, CTCP, original section 2 of HR1689 association issues, yet my phone calls are answered in a timely manner. Must be doing something right.
Why don’t you ask for your membership dues back. Bet the NLA wont have any problems writing that check or the address on the envelope.

John, you must have children, because only a father could have your patience. Stay straight and always keep the little guy in mind.
Carolyn, thanks for signing in, but you have made your bones, you don’t have to listen this sh*t.

Signed,
Paulie Walnuts

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by fivestaroregon:
Jim
Would we be able to agree that we should be urging all operators to call their rep's in Congress and ask for a YES vote?
John
NLA Board Member
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Absolutely! But it sure would be nice if we had an association that could provide the mailing addresses, fax numbers and e-mail addresses of all members of Congress to facilitate contacting them, wouldn't it, John? And why should members contact only THEIR reps? With fax or e-mail a single members can contact ALL reps in a single press of a button.

[This message has been edited by jhj (edited 09-15-2000).]

Alright Jim I have agreed with many of your questions and lack of answers, we definately have them here in florida. There has been issues about the ITLA, I happen to think the they are a good organiztion, very strong but they sure listen to their members because if it wasn't for a certain group of guys that pushed, they would not have gone back to the NLA to help. As I said before the NLA has some good people as directors, (I am not a drum beater) those that know me will tell you that, but Carolyn Nelson is one of the better ones, Gary Tomkin will be, they can't do it alone they need assistance from others. When the nominations are done I hope to see people like Alan Fisher, Don Kinsey, Joe Cirruzzo get in there, these guys are nobodys patsy's they look out for the small guys. People like Carolyn can only do so much I know she's been there for the guys in Florida, the rest of the directors need to wake up and listen to her. Yes she will get defensive for the NLA, its like an Italian thing, I might call my sister a low life but nobody else better say it.
I have more to say but been called away, I will be back.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Paulie Walnuts:
To all,
I agree with a lot of your points concerning some of the recent set backs and flaws of the
NLA. Was CTCP a mistake? Yes. Can it be fixed? I believe so. Do the by-laws need to be changed? Yes. Do they need to be abided by? Absolutely. Do we, the NLA, need changes?
Sure. Should some directors get the boot? It looks that way. Maybe a new executive director?
My opinion of some needed changes. We need an annual meeting. We need to have reps
from each association that will work closely with the NLA Board and Executive Director.
A web site that allows members to log in such as this forum. A budget (room, meals,
airfare, etc.) that would allow legitimate small operators who are willing, to sit on the board.
My opinion of what we don’t need in the NLA. People, like jhj who don’t have a good
thing to say about anyone, and who can only criticize and analyze the statements,
character and actions of others. Ever heard of don’t burn your bridges behind you, those
who give respect get respect, you get further with sugar than you do with salt. Didn’t your elders teach you anything. I would think that some one with as many politician friends as yourself would have learned some political savvy. You act like a child that repeats I want it, I want it, I want it, until his parent give in. Got a guy in Florida like you, nobody listens to him either.
I bitch and moan to the NLA on a regular basis, CTCP, original section 2 of HR1689 association issues, yet my phone calls are answered in a timely manner. Must be doing something right.
Why don’t you ask for your membership dues back. Bet the NLA wont have any problems writing that check or the address on the envelope.

John, you must have children, because only a father could have your patience. Stay straight and always keep the little guy in mind.
Carolyn, thanks for signing in, but you have made your bones, you don’t have to listen this sh*t.

Signed,
Paulie Walnuts<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

"Amen" to your first several lines, Paulie. As to your comments about me, just remember that none of the objectives you refer to will be achieved unless someone will the tell the Emperor he wears no clothes. Otherwise, Paulie, I don't give one whit what the certification committee does, or what anyone at NLA does. I'm not running for anything, I have all the respect I need, I have my own accomplishments, and we'll do our own thing in the limousine business. The "Good Old Boy" approach of effecting change in the NLA is goofy - it'll never happen because there's not enought talent and business experience outside small limousine operations to make things happen. I'm going to Chicago to the certification forum for one reason, and one reason only - and that it that I'm not going to criticize and then sit back and not make any direct contribution. I don't think it'll make any difference, I don't think anything I say or do will change anything, and I think it's a waste of my time - but since I'm meeting the ISO 9000 folks the same day to discuss our company's certification, it's not a total loss. But no one will be able to say that I dumped on the certification program and the Limo Old Boys that use it to tilt the playing field their direction and then didn't do anything constructive. Chances are I won't say or do anything in Chicago, but I will have been there when many others won't be.

Hey all you NLA directors and officers - go read the latest posting in the Florida Livery Association Forum. You can read for yourselfs how the OWNER of the FLA single handidly got 1689 passed by the congressional committee. No memntion of either the NLA or ITLA - I guess the owner did all by himself. I also believe his interpretation of what I understood 1689 to state is slightly bent to support his position for a state license.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hesch (from Florida):
Hey all you NLA directors and officers - go read the latest posting in the Florida Livery Association Forum. You can read for yourselfs how the OWNER of the FLA single handidly got 1689 passed by the congressional committee. No memntion of either the NLA or ITLA - I guess the owner did all by himself. I also believe his interpretation of what I understood 1689 to state is slightly bent to support his position for a state license. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

***********

Hi Hesch

Just got back from a wedding show and read the post in question. He made have lent a hand but he is only a small voice in the choir. Don't fret, Mom will be working on a resoultion on this matter at the October NLA meeting in New Orleans.

John Sinibaldi
NLA Board Member


------------------

John I think things will be quiet for a few days due to the Chicago meeting.
What is the meeting in New Orleans about and who is allowed to attend?

Do you know how many states have a single statewide permit with absolutely no local regulations.

Jim I know your in Chicago, I hope its constructive. I have agreed with some of your questions to the NLA, but stay focused on your cause, your starting to lose credibility with some of the forum readers that were in your corner. My group of guys have made some of the loudest noise dealing with problems with the NLA, but did not make anything personal, we stayed focussed until we got things done or answered.

John I know very well Carolyns intentions, the other board members need to listen. I refuse to let someone who has no stake in the industry dictate to us in Florida.
There an old saying becareful what you wish for. Have to go a meeting see you guys later.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Guy in Tampa:
Jim I know your in Chicago, I hope its constructive. I have agreed with some of your questions to the NLA, but stay focused on your cause, your starting to lose credibility with some of the forum readers that were in your corner. My group of guys have made some of the loudest noise dealing with problems with the NLA, but did not make anything personal, we stayed focussed until we got things done or answered.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Chicago was an interesting meeting and, I think, constructive. I'm not going to say anything because NLA wants to put out info concerning the meeting to the members, and as long as they do so accurately, I'm going along and am not going to talk about the meeting in these forums. I got a refund of part of the money paid for the CTCP, and am promised the rest when we return the training and testing materials, so if that happens I've been satisfied from that end. And, I might add, John Sinibaldi got a copy of the organizing documents for NLA Certification and gave it to me in Chicago. It shows that at least as of the date of organization, July 20, 2000, NLA was the sole "member" of that LLC.
There are many changes coming at NLA with the upcoming election and in other regards. I'm still going to insist on getting answers to the questions I posed, but part of this campaign is going to go "underground" where it will be more effective, and some of it will move into the legal arena, which is where I live and play. http://limos.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
As for Ron Sorci, we met in Chicago and spoke, I think, civilly, and we were among a group that went to dinner together. Ron didn't see fit to apologize for what he wrote about me to Greg Casteel, but then again, since he didn't I wasn't compelled to apologize to him. So I guess we will remain mutually offended, but the matter is going to be put to rest for now from my standpoint. This will become more understandable as the results of the Chicago meeting become public and evident. I think I've made my point about the CTCP.
I've made a number of predictions from time to time in my posts, and I'm going to bide my time and when they come to be realized I will remind participants here that "you read it here first," and "I told you so."
Met with the ISO 9000 folks in Chicago and, as I have previously said, our company is going to proceed toward certification by ISO. It will be the first limo company, which we and they both find interesting. Several others attended the meeting with me and PJI is going to look into a "network" approach that might substantially reduce the cost to companies that are part of a participating network, i.e., Dav El, A Elegant, etc. Don't mean to imply that either network representatives attended the meeting or is looking to ISO 9000 - just used them as an example of networks. Had business in Ohio coming and going, so I drove over to Chicago and was struck by the number of tractor-trailers with "ISO 9000 certified" or "ISO 9002 certified" on the back of the trailer. The predominant one was "Short," but also saw Daimler-Chrysler Transport with "ISO-9002 certified" on the trailer, among many others. PJI confirmed that the most active area for ISO 9000 certification right now in the USA is trucking companies.
Having said all of that - now let's look to see if anyone answers the questions . . . a few of which you may be reading about elsewhere one of these days. I'm no longer going to berate anybody for not answering (we'll let the NLA directors' silence speak for itself), but I'm not going to let it drop. Both John Sinibaldi and Ron Sorci are on record in these forums as undertaking to answer the questions after they consult with or talk to others. Whether that's a put-off or not, we'll eventually learn. Eventually, we'll all see the results of the discussions in these forums and the "underground" efforts. Stay tuned.

[This message has been edited by jhj (edited 09-21-2000).]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Guy in Tampa:
John I think things will be quiet for a few days due to the Chicago meeting.
What is the meeting in New Orleans about and who is allowed to attend?

Do you know how many states have a single statewide permit with absolutely no local regulations.

Jim I know your in Chicago, I hope its constructive. I have agreed with some of your questions to the NLA, but stay focused on your cause, your starting to lose credibility with some of the forum readers that were in your corner. My group of guys have made some of the loudest noise dealing with problems with the NLA, but did not make anything personal, we stayed focussed until we got things done or answered.

John I know very well Carolyns intentions, the other board members need to listen. I refuse to let someone who has no stake in the industry dictate to us in Florida.
There an old saying becareful what you wish for. Have to go a meeting see you guys later.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
*************
Hello Guy in Tampa
Just got in the door from Chicago. The meeting in New Orleans in a regular Board meeting followed by a road show. The exective board meets on Sunday Oct 1st and the regular board meeting in on the 2nd & 3rd. The road show is on the 4th. If you want information on the meeting, please call the NLA office. We have had guests at the privous meetings I have attended.
John Sinibaldi
Board Member

------------------

Guy, The NLA voted unanimously for my change to the by-laws and I am very pleased. Stay tuned in the next LIMOSCENE and also a letter that should get sent to all of the associations at the end of next week. Victory for the Association Liaison and all of its members. We do listen.
Yours Truly,
Carolyn
from Maryland
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by fivestaroregon:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Guy in Tampa:
John I think things will be quiet for a few days due to the Chicago meeting.
What is the meeting in New Orleans about and who is allowed to attend?

Do you know how many states have a single statewide permit with absolutely no local regulations.

Jim I know your in Chicago, I hope its constructive. I have agreed with some of your questions to the NLA, but stay focused on your cause, your starting to lose credibility with some of the forum readers that were in your corner. My group of guys have made some of the loudest noise dealing with problems with the NLA, but did not make anything personal, we stayed focussed until we got things done or answered.

John I know very well Carolyns intentions, the other board members need to listen. I refuse to let someone who has no stake in the industry dictate to us in Florida.
There an old saying becareful what you wish for. Have to go a meeting see you guys later.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
*************
Hello Guy in Tampa
Just got in the door from Chicago. The meeting in New Orleans in a regular Board meeting followed by a road show. The exective board meets on Sunday Oct 1st and the regular board meeting in on the 2nd & 3rd. The road show is on the 4th. If you want information on the meeting, please call the NLA office. We have had guests at the privous meetings I have attended.
John Sinibaldi
Board Member

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

O.K. guys - WHAT HAPPENED IN CHICAGO ?????

C-Girl as I told Jim he needs to stay focussed. Thanks for the call it took some time but the board listened.

John I appreciate that info, let me know if you have any luck with the other question.

Jim as I told you, the board, they are not all bad, my guys get heard and get things done, You know what they say about my old country "Rome wasn't built in a day" some days last longer.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hesch (from Florida):
O.K. guys - WHAT HAPPENED IN CHICAGO ?????<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
My last post indicated that NLA wants to summarize what the consensus was in Chicago and publish it to the members for their input. It will not serve any purpose to have several of us who were there giving our versions, so let's wait until NLA puts out the information for feedback which, I hope, they do accurately without any spin. Then we can have a discussion on it. Tom Mazza was there and asked if he could meet a print deadline with a report of the meeting and it was generally agreed that even he should wait until an "official" version goes out. To avoid too much speculation, however, it's probably fair to say that at least the certification committee, the steering committee of the certification committee, and the officious intermeddlers who were there (such as me) came to variations in a consensus that if the certification program survives, it won't look a whole lot like the Pinnacle program, and more likely will be more flexible in terms of equivalencies, and may not be a "certification" program at all. But that's my own personal view, and this thing has to be filtered through a discursive explanation that the staff is going to prepare (good luck), put out for input from members, and then the NLA board is going to make some decision. This will all be ripe for discussion here when the staff promulgates a written version of what was going on at the meeting. I don't think anyone left the meeting very upset about the direction, including me. Frankly, the direction was somewhat surprising.

I thought the meeting in Chi was very productive and I agree with Jim Joseph's assessment. The aforum participants agreed that the program is worth saving and changes need to be made. By 10/15 Ron Sorci will have compiled and distributed the suggestions made at the meeting. They will be published in NLA newsletter 10-15 to 10/22 and by 11/15 the committee hopes to have a final direction on how to change the program.

On a personal note, I had dinner with a group that included Jim Joseph and Ron Sorci. My impression of Jim was completely changed by 2 days of personal interaction. He is an intelligent person who conducted himself as a gentlemen and took the time to listen. I told him I disagree with what I term "conspiracy theories" and name calling but I think he can be an important player in the this program and in the limousine industry.

I do want to say, I would have had even more respect if he apologized to Ron for the "moron" comments regardless of what Ron did or did not say.

I also want to say specifically to Jim, Joe Ciruzzo, Guy Mongello, Larry White etc that I APOLOGIZE for not stating your criticisms of the CTP in LCT six months ago. I did not fight hard enough and I was DEAD WRONG to let it go by. I will try to be fair and accurate on reporting on the future of the program.

Regards,
Tom Mazza
LCT Senior Editor

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tom mazza:
I thought the meeting in Chi was very productive and I agree with Jim Joseph's assessment. The aforum participants agreed that the program is worth saving and changes need to be made. By 10/15 Ron Sorci will have compiled and distributed the suggestions made at the meeting. They will be published in NLA newsletter 10-15 to 10/22 and by 11/15 the committee hopes to have a final direction on how to change the program.

On a personal note, I had dinner with a group that included Jim Joseph and Ron Sorci. My impression of Jim was completely changed by 2 days of personal interaction. He is an intelligent person who conducted himself as a gentlemen and took the time to listen. I told him I disagree with what I term "conspiracy theories" and name calling but I think he can be an important player in the this program and in the limousine industry.

I do want to say, I would have had even more respect if he apologized to Ron for the "moron" comments regardless of what Ron did or did not say.

I also want to say specifically to Jim, Joe Ciruzzo, Guy Mongello, Larry White etc that I APOLOGIZE for not stating your criticisms of the CTP in LCT six months ago. I did not fight hard enough and I was DEAD WRONG to let it go by. I will try to be fair and accurate on reporting on the future of the program.

Regards,
Tom Mazza
LCT Senior Editor<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks for the good words, Tom - we lawyers aren't used to people saying things like that about us. By the way, scroll back through the forums and you won't find my using the term "moron" to describe Ron Sorci - that term was reserved for and used exclusively to describe the NLA staff. I used the term "ridiculous" because Ron used that term to describe my criticism of Pinnacle's "gifting" the CTCP to NLA under circumstances where the letter I wrote was not directed to Ron and where I did not copy it to anybody - but Ron copied it to NLA officers and directors, which I thought inappropriate for a person in a position of trust at NLA. The letters are posted in these forums for reference. Having said that, I intend to say no more about Ron Sorci, and I'll deal with him in a businesslike manner. Further comments on the CTCP, after publication in the newsletter, will focus on the substance of the program, for I think further discussion among the industry should be encouraged and will be productive.

Hi Tommy I/we appreciate the apology,but none is needed from you, it was a difficult situation for you at the time. I want to say thanks for what you have done for us guys in Florida. We appreciate what you do for the industry also. Your next project is to help my gomba with that coachbuilder problem. I hate to blast them on this forum.

Hey John don't forget the second part of my question.

Jim we have to make things work, get the right guys in there when the nominations come out and we will continue to make headway. Their is good people in the NLA, and inspite of what some think, the ITLA also.

Hey Guy why don't you tell them about the the poor excuse of a lender from down there in Florida. The industry needs to do something about the Car Corps or I mean the Car Craps out there.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Guy in Tampa:
C-Girl as I told Jim he needs to stay focussed. Thanks for the call it took some time but the board listened.

John I appreciate that info, let me know if you have any luck with the other question.

Jim as I told you, the board, they are not all bad, my guys get heard and get things done, You know what they say about my old country "Rome wasn't built in a day" some days last longer.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
****************
Hello Guy
I have sent an e-mail to Carolyn about your question. I am not sure, however in Oregon we do not have a permit requirement. The only place in Oregon that you need a permit, is the Portland International Airport.

The city of Eugene, requires a permit, but its actually only to verify your advertising claims. I will get back to you with a complete answer on the other states.

John
NLA Board Member------------------


[This message has been edited by fivestaroregon (edited 09-23-2000).]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by B P:
Hey Guy why don't you tell them about the the poor excuse of a lender from down there in Florida. The industry needs to do something about the Car Corps or I mean the Car Craps out there. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am working on a story on Car Corp, could you and ANYONE that had experience with Car Corp call me MOnday 215-914-1448

Thanks
Tom

Hi Tom, I had a problem with Car Corp, very non responsive, even to my attorneys request.
Over in the NLA certification forum , 2nd or 3rd page Allure Limo inc had a question for somebody about a south florida leasing company, check it out. More people should speak up but I feel they are embarrased about the situation they got themselves into.
Worse part is these scum keep going to limo shows. You also might check out one of ther funders Bomardier in Jacksonville.
I'll talk to you later.
Guy

Oh, what is the story with CarCorp? Should another thread be started?

Hey Mike it could be a good thread, but not just with Car Corp. There are alot of stories out there, but I am not sure guys will come on and talk. Some Lenders will take advantage of people, leesee's will not even really know what % they pay over the term of the loan. These are the scum sucking dogs.
I will put a question out there for the forum.
How many guys out there have gotten an amoritzation schedule from their leasing companies?
Lets hear it.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ragu:
Hey Mike it could be a good thread, but not just with Car Corp. There are alot of stories out there, but I am not sure guys will come on and talk. Some Lenders will take advantage of people, leesee's will not even really know what % they pay over the term of the loan. These are the scum sucking dogs.
I will put a question out there for the forum.
How many guys out there have gotten an amoritzation schedule from their leasing companies?
Lets hear it.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
***************

It pays to get a couple of quotes. I almost fell into a crumy lease that would have cost me an extra $9,000.00.

I have had very good terms and service from Federated. They actually include an amoritzation schudule with their loan documents. Hey Michael, How about getting a spell checker on the system. I could use some help at times!
John Sinibaldi
NLA Board Member

------------------

John you have that spell checker thing right. I to have used Federated they seem to be very good, I also like the schedule of payments they give you. Car Corp yea right!
I lost 4 sales because I could not get correct payoffs. I would also like to see others respond to our questions of who has been ripped.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ragu:
Hey Mike it could be a good thread, but not just with Car Corp. There are alot of stories out there, but I am not sure guys will come on and talk. Some Lenders will take advantage of people, leesee's will not even really know what % they pay over the term of the loan. These are the scum sucking dogs.
I will put a question out there for the forum.
How many guys out there have gotten an amoritzation schedule from their leasing companies?
Lets hear it.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


If no one else has beaten me to the punch, I will admit that I have NOT received same. Either due to ignorance or the excitement of being able to start my own service. I have and am having an "I am not sure what to do structural car problem" with a Leasing Company (that I got the car from) that was advertised in LCT went bankrupt, but the lease was sold to another company. http://limos.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_redface.gif

For AllureLimo and Guy in Tampa, I'll bet 2 tickets to a Dolphin/Jet game that both you guys used that no good bunch from Car Corp and the company they sold the leeses to, bombardier, now in jacksonville. Bet your payoffs don't jive do they, thats if you can get one. Does anyone call you back from ther office? Doubt it!
If these guys are allowed in any show, LC&T or LD there could be quite a scene. I will be part of it.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Big Pussy Bonpinsiero:
For AllureLimo and Guy in Tampa, I'll bet 2 tickets to a Dolphin/Jet game that both you guys used that no good bunch from Car Corp and the company they sold the leeses to, bombardier, now in jacksonville. Bet your payoffs don't jive do they, thats if you can get one. Does anyone call you back from ther office? Doubt it!
If these guys are allowed in any show, LC&T or LD there could be quite a scene. I will be part of it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

YEP, right on the mark about Bombardier.

Please share your leasing horror stories with me

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tom mazza:
Please share your leasing horror stories with me<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Could I please have your e-mail address so I can tell you my tale, thx.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AllureLimoInc.:
Could I please have your e-mail address so I can tell you my tale, thx.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Tom can be reached at tommazza@aol.com