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January 9th, 2003, 10:07 AM
It has been stated in other post that many Limo companies consider their Chauffeurs Independent contractors to avoid paying FICA, FUTA, Comp ect. If this were true, and one of the rules you imposed on the Chauffeur was that no one was to smoke in the Limo, you would be directing him in how to conduct his business and there for the IC arrangement would be void. I personally do not smoke, but with the Clients I deal with in my area and the Company I work for in Detroit, if we were to tell them they can't smoke, they would tell us what to do with our Limos.

The IC arrangement works well with Taxi cabs because of the rules and regulations imposed by the regulating authority. We enjoy the luxury of regulating our own so it makes the IC arrangement a little un workable. I welcome any coments you have. Thats what this forum is all about.

David E. Merrill

January 9th, 2003, 10:42 AM
Two ways round this one, the contract that is sent out can state that the vehicle is a non-smoking one, if you have a fleet that has some smoking and some none smoking, it then becomes their choice.
In my area the reverse is true with regard to smokers, however you could try this one," we have upgraded your car but I'm afraid that it is used for non-smoking hires only please would you refrain from smoking on this occaision as the very next hire is for a non-smoker". This usually works, after saying that all my cars have "please do not smoke" signs in them.
ME ? I'm afraid I have to own up to being a smoker (sad isn't it) http://limos.com/graemlins/blush.gif

January 10th, 2003, 01:35 PM
as the world approaches the widespread realization that second hand smoke is just as dangerous as first hand (second hand smoke isn't filtered, for one) you approach a wall where Workers Comp will be after you for providing an unsafe workplace, your limos.

up here in bc, we are facing that right now, as well as health canada has decided second hand smoke kills. in our Capital Regional District, smoking in a workplace is already banned.

i personally dont smoke, but i am addictied to that unholy, evil, white powder... http://limos.com/graemlins/hail.gif



...sugar... http://limos.com/graemlins/banghead.gif

January 11th, 2003, 03:29 AM
David, You mentioned second hand smoke and unsafe work place. I agree, and it very well could become an issue. Having quit smoking back in 1979, I dislike second hand smoke probably more than most, but I live with it as a price of doing business and staying married. (my wife smokes) The point I was trying to make and get some input on, was this. If I were to set up a true, fully IRS approved (SS 8 forms and all) Independent Contractor relationship, not just a DBA deal, How can I enforcce a no smoking policy with out exercising control on the IC as to how he is to perform his job. I view the IC relationship very much like the farm out agreement. I can tell the farm out company where to pick up and where to drop off, but I can't control how much he is to charge nor weather he can allow Clients to smoke in his car. Actually, when I lease a Limo to an IC, it becomes HIS CAR during the lease period. The Clients become HIS CLIENTS. What he collects is HIS MONEY. I am just leasing him the car and providing him with dispatch service. If I tell him HIS CLIENTS can't smoke in HIS CAR, then I am controlling him and therfore he becomes an Employee. Am I right or wrong? In put please.

David E. Merrill

January 11th, 2003, 05:39 PM
I've typed and erased about a thousand words so far or so it seems. Can't seem to put together what I'm thinking.

I haven't rented a car from Budget or Hertz in an eon or so, how the heck do they punish smokers? Your IC's should be treated the same way.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by David Merrill:
David, You mentioned second hand smoke and unsafe work place. I agree, and it very well could become an issue. Having quit smoking back in 1979, I dislike second hand smoke probably more than most, but I live with it as a price of doing business and staying married. (my wife smokes) The point I was trying to make and get some input on, was this. If I were to set up a true, fully IRS approved (SS 8 forms and all) Independent Contractor relationship, not just a DBA deal, How can I enforcce a no smoking policy with out exercising control on the IC as to how he is to perform his job. I view the IC relationship very much like the farm out agreement. I can tell the farm out company where to pick up and where to drop off, but I can't control how much he is to charge nor weather he can allow Clients to smoke in his car. Actually, when I lease a Limo to an IC, it becomes HIS CAR during the lease period. The Clients become HIS CLIENTS. What he collects is HIS MONEY. I am just leasing him the car and providing him with dispatch service. If I tell him HIS CLIENTS can't smoke in HIS CAR, then I am controlling him and therfore he becomes an Employee. Am I right or wrong? In put please.

David E. Merrill<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

January 11th, 2003, 07:04 PM
> as the world approaches the widespread realization that second
> hand smoke is just as dangerous as first hand

> health canada has decided second hand smoke kills.

Anyone know anybody who has died from second hand smoke? Ask you doctor the next time you are there how many patients are being treated for second hand smoke illness.

LA, What is health Canada? Is that a political group or a medical group?

Sounds like some Californians have moved north!!

Steve Walker
Azusa, CA
steve@capriceshop.com
http://www.capriceshop.com

January 11th, 2003, 07:24 PM
> I am just leasing him the car and providing
> him with dispatch service

David,
I think you should add to your dispatch service the step of asking clients who call in if they would like a smoking or non smoking vehicle. Then survey your IC's to find out who wants to have a smoking car and who wants to have a non smoking car. It then becomes an assingment issue. Because after all if they are IC's then you have a right to choose who gets the assingments. But I am sure you have some sort of agreement in place as to how work gets assigned so this could get messy. But my point is, no one wants a car that stinks, Even smokers do not like sitting in a car that does not smell like thier brand. Those IC's that allow smoking would soon see thier number of runs go down, I suspect.

But you are right tough issue with IC involved. Fill us in on how you do assign work. If you have 2 runs on one day and you lease out 6 limos to IC's who gets the runs? Senority, lowest bid, lowest hours, names in a hat;-) ??

Later!!

Steve Walker
Azusa, CA
steve@capriceshop.com
http://www.capriceshop.com

January 12th, 2003, 06:09 AM
When we were in the Taxi business getting our IC agreements approved, we had an auditor from the IRS in our office for two days to determine that our dispatch did not show any favoritism. It had to be on a strict blind rotation. This did make it a little difficult when you had a Driver sitting on top of a run and the Driver who was up, on the other side of town. We were granted the consession that if the up Driver agreed to the switch, you could give the cloest Driver the run. The up Driver was still up however for the next run. This problem is not that much of a problem in the Limo business.

Too many times in the Limo business, a manager will try to "punnish" a Chauffeur who he may have a ------ for by not giving him a run for a few days. Under A true IC agreement, this cannot happen. It shows control and thus makes the IC an Employee.

Most Limousine company owners need to have that control and as I said, do not have the stomach to give it up to a true IC arrangement.

David E. Merrill