What to do about NLA? [Archive] - The Limousine Discussion Forum

September 12th, 2002, 10:27 AM

now has for download a one-page-so-truncated-as-to-be-useless-interim-unaudited financial statement-with-all-normal-notes-and-disclosures-omitted posted for download.

http://www.limo.org/finance.pdf

Those who do not understand financial statements are supposed to be impressed by the cash balance.

The statement is qualified as not being typical of the year and should be read in conjunction with the year ending December 31, 2001 audited financial statement which will NOT be posted. The note says that that statement must be requested in writing to the NLA office, to which you will never get a response. Anyone want to try to get it? Luff said he could get one way back when - how about now?

Does anyone else think this is a deceptive and less than forthright approach to meeting the by-laws requirement of providing financial statement to the members?

Since a lot of time has passed, take the poll if you haven't done so.

James H. Joseph
Pegasus Chauffeured Motor Cars
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
jhj@pegasus-pittsburgh.com

September 12th, 2002, 01:09 PM

I think they did more than they had to. I do beleive there are those that that should be happy that the board has taken a 'step' in the right direction.

Matt Harrison
AAA Guaranteed On-Time Limousine, Clinton NJ

September 12th, 2002, 11:59 PM

that after all this time, that this is what we get. This type of "report" probably took all of 2 minutes to put togethor and post. Doesn't the NLA file a tax return? Am I wrong in expecting that type of information. I would also be interested in "who" prepared this data. The verbage at the bottom sounds as though it was copied from someone else's annual statement. Did a professional accounting firm prepare this? If so, aren't they usually named?

September 13th, 2002, 12:41 AM

would put something like this on his/her letterhead or sign it and thereby assume responsibility for it. The incredible impunity with which NLA directors flaunt the by-laws and, I might add, the DC Corproation Code, never ceases to amaze me - but big reputations are at stake here, so when one is in a survival mode one will do almost anything. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is what we've been getting for three years now - is it wrong to heap derision on the responsible persons? Remember, these people have duties to the members defined by the by-laws and the law.

Michael - can I have a one-message dispensation from forum rules to say what I REALLY think about the people responsible for this abortion?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Limos4You:
that after all this time, that this is what we get. This type of "report" probably took all of 2 minutes to put togethor and post. Doesn't the NLA file a tax return? Am I wrong in expecting that type of information. I would also be interested in "who" prepared this data. The verbage at the bottom sounds as though it was copied from someone else's annual statement. Did a professional accounting firm prepare this? If so, aren't they usually named?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

James H. Joseph
Pegasus Chauffeured Motor Cars
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
jhj@pegasus-pittsburgh.com

September 13th, 2002, 12:49 AM

it isn't hard to figure out why NLA is the mess it is. If the members are willing to be fed pablum, then they get what they deserve.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by AAA/GOT:
I think they did more than they had to. I do beleive there are those that that should be happy that the board has taken a 'step' in the right direction.

Matt Harrison
AAA Guaranteed On-Time Limousine, Clinton NJ
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

James H. Joseph
Pegasus Chauffeured Motor Cars
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
jhj@pegasus-pittsburgh.com

September 13th, 2002, 12:01 PM

At this point in time, the above poll shows that voters are in favor of reforming tne existing NLA, no matter how long it takes.

I have said the current board has taken a step in the right direction. I stand by that.

Matt Harrison
AAA Guaranteed On-Time Limousine, Clinton NJ

September 13th, 2002, 12:09 PM

As I read the poll, 7 persons predominate in saying that in either one or two years, if Bobit doesn't accomplish something, a new association should be formed. Are we reading the same statistics? At least three others say start a new association now. In other words, only a minority (a third) prefer to beat their heads against a brick wall. To say it another way, 10 out of 15 who care favor starting a new association, the issue being only that of time.

The current board has accomplished nothing and 2/3 of those polled agree but merely want to wait different amount of times, and I stand by that.

By the way, who are the five votes: Mazza, Solombrino, Eastwood-McLean, and two clericals working in the office. There should be 22 votes in this category if all the NLA directors and pseudo-directors voted.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by AAA/GOT:
At this point in time, the above poll shows that voters are in favor of reforming tne existing NLA, no matter how long it takes.

I have said the current board has taken a step in the right direction. I stand by that.

Matt Harrison
AAA Guaranteed On-Time Limousine, Clinton NJ
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

James H. Joseph
Pegasus Chauffeured Motor Cars
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
jhj@pegasus-pittsburgh.com

September 27th, 2002, 12:52 PM

persons who "care" want to scrap NLA, and only the timing is at issue - as of today.

James H. Joseph
Pegasus Chauffeured Motor Cars
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
jhj@pegasus-pittsburgh.com

September 27th, 2002, 01:00 PM

JHJ I was wondering if you requested the financials and if you did have you received them yet?

Wade Randolph

September 27th, 2002, 01:04 PM

I think that the evidence is crystal clear. They have proved to be exclusive, not inclusive. Does anyone hear a bell of FATE ringing ?

Dean Schuler

September 27th, 2002, 05:47 PM

I've been called a lot of things in my life, but "stupid" isn't one of them. You don't really think Thomas "I" Mazza is going to send me financials. "Others" will get them in due course, and they'll come my way. If they showed anything good, Mazza would have already sent me a set without so much as asking. Said another way, if they were't devastating, they'd be posted on the net. Actually seeing them is a mere formality sort of like declaring the certification program dead after it actually died.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Wade Randolph:
JHJ I was wondering if you requested the financials and if you did have you received them yet?

Wade Randolph<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

James H. Joseph
Pegasus Chauffeured Motor Cars
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
jhj@pegasus-pittsburgh.com

September 28th, 2002, 08:18 AM

I find people much more responsive if you don't yell "F**k You" at them when you are on the phone.

Maybe you missed that lesson in the 'people skills' part of your massive education. http://limos.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by JHJ:
I've been called a lot of things in my life, but "stupid" isn't one of them. You don't really think Thomas "I" Mazza is going to send me financials. "Others" will get them in due course, and they'll come my way. If they showed anything good, Mazza would have already sent me a set without so much as asking. Said another way, if they were't devastating, they'd be posted on the net. Actually seeing them is a mere formality sort of like declaring the certification program dead after it actually died.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Wade Randolph:
JHJ I was wondering if you requested the financials and if you did have you received them yet?

Wade Randolph<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

James H. Joseph
_Pegasus Chauffeured Motor Cars_
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
jhj@pegasus-pittsburgh.com)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Matt Harrison
AAA Guaranteed On-Time Limousine, Clinton NJ

September 28th, 2002, 10:21 AM

I am in, after "massive education," uses telephones for purposeful communication. Uninvited and unwanted telephone calls void of information content should be treated appropriately. As for me, I can't ever remember "yelling" in a telephone, but perhaps those with special aural sensitivity arising out of low self-esteem hear things differently. http://limos.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by AAA/GOT:
I find people much more responsive if you don't yell "F**k You" at them when you are on the phone.

Maybe you missed that lesson in the 'people skills' part of your massive education. http://limos.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by JHJ:
I've been called a lot of things in my life, but "stupid" isn't one of them. You don't really think Thomas "I" Mazza is going to send me financials. "Others" will get them in due course, and they'll come my way. If they showed anything good, Mazza would have already sent me a set without so much as asking. Said another way, if they were't devastating, they'd be posted on the net. Actually seeing them is a mere formality sort of like declaring the certification program dead after it actually died.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Wade Randolph:
JHJ I was wondering if you requested the financials and if you did have you received them yet?

Wade Randolph<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

James H. Joseph
_Pegasus Chauffeured Motor Cars_
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
jhj@pegasus-pittsburgh.com)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Matt Harrison
AAA Guaranteed On-Time Limousine, Clinton NJ
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

James H. Joseph
Pegasus Chauffeured Motor Cars
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
jhj@pegasus-pittsburgh.com

September 28th, 2002, 11:14 AM

Perhaps you didn't "yell" it.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by JHJ:
I am in, after "massive education," uses telephones for purposeful communication. Uninvited and unwanted telephone calls void of information content should be treated appropriately. As for me, I can't ever remember "yelling" in a telephone, but perhaps those with special aural sensitivity arising out of low self-esteem hear things differently. http://limos.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by AAA/GOT:
I find people much more responsive if you don't yell "F**k You" at them when you are on the phone.

Maybe you missed that lesson in the 'people skills' part of your massive education. http://limos.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by JHJ:
I've been called a lot of things in my life, but "stupid" isn't one of them. You don't really think is going to send me financials. "Others" will get them in due course, and they'll come my way. If they showed anything good, Mazza would have already sent me a set without so much as asking. Said another way, if they were't devastating, they'd be posted on the net. Actually seeing them is a mere formality sort of like declaring the certification program dead after it actually died.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Wade Randolph:
JHJ I was wondering if you requested the financials and if you did have you received them yet?

Wade Randolph<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

James H. Joseph
_Pegasus Chauffeured Motor Cars_
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
jhj@pegasus-pittsburgh.com)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Matt Harrison
AAA Guaranteed On-Time Limousine, Clinton NJ
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

James H. Joseph
_Pegasus Chauffeured Motor Cars_
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
jhj@pegasus-pittsburgh.com)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Matt Harrison
AAA Guaranteed On-Time Limousine, Clinton NJ

[This message was edited by AAA/GOT on September 28, 2002 at 06:33 PM.]

[This message was edited by Viperion Corporation / Limos.com on September 29, 2002 at 04:18 PM.]

September 28th, 2002, 11:53 AM

After watching the antics of some of the folks that are discussed here-the lousy treatment of Linda Moore, Publisher of Limousine Digest being one of many prime sordid examples by people that think they know the industry and actually think that they run it- I have to say that you deserve everything J.H.J. dishes out to you. The Soci realm ended when Harold Dulitz and I took out the original livery coach and researched the numbers correctly. Too bad there are those who still think the Industry is composed of mushrooms. The Modern-Day operators will shear the corrupt elements of the old guard like sheep.

Dean Schuler

[This message was edited by Dean Schuler on September 28, 2002 at 07:10 PM.]

September 28th, 2002, 12:18 PM

What happened to Linda Moore? I've always been a reader of Limousine Digest and have never been unsupportive of it.

By the way, I'll always be the first to say Sorci is/was a putz. I know this first hand.

And tell us more abut the corrupt elements of the industry, maybe there are some who don't know. It wouldn't hurt to talk about it here in the open, in fact it might help.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Dean Schuler:
After watching the antics of some the folks that are discussed here-the lousy treatment of Linda Moore, Publisher of Limousine Digest being one of many prime sordid examples by people that think they know the industry and actually think that they run it- I have to say that you deserve everything J.H.J. dishes out to you. The Soci realm ended when Harold Dulitz and I took out the original livery coach and researched the numbers correctly. Too bad there are those who still think the Industry is composed of mushrooms. The Modern-Day operators will shear the corrupt elements of the old guard like sheep.

Dean Schuler<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Matt Harrison
AAA Guaranteed On-Time Limousine, Clinton NJ

September 28th, 2002, 01:32 PM

Two members of the "national trade association" threw her out of their meeting thus proving once and for all ( AS if we didn't know-DUH!! ) that they were responding to the wishes of the cartel; the puppet masters of the limousine industry past. We all laughed as their behavior showed how low they rank on the class/knowledge meter; and as their activities are only important to themselves. The thing is this: If you claim to be a national trade association representing the industry-why are you exclusive, not inclusive ? Especially when it comes to Limousine Digest-which is now the dominant industry trade journal-leading large in advertisers, circulation, show and editorial.( author's note: I am one of the founders of Limousine Digest ) Having said that, please understand that I read- gladly- anything industry related and learn from a variety of sources.For myself, I respect the TLPA and the UMA a great deal more than our limo association. The corruption and self-serving that has gone on attracted a response-J.H.J.. So if the puppet masters still want to lie about Pittsburgh Limousine and various and sundry other issues- my heart doesn't bleed for them when they get called on the carpet. They have attracted to themselves what they deserve.

Dean Schuler

September 28th, 2002, 01:48 PM

Very well stated.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Dean Schuler:
Two members of the "national trade association" threw her out of their meeting thus proving once and for all ( AS if we didn't know-DUH!! ) that they were responding to the wishes of the cartel; the puppet masters of the limousine industry past. We all laughed as their behavior showed how low they rank on the class/knowledge meter; and as their activities are only important to themselves. The thing is this: If you claim to be a national trade association representing the industry-why are you exclusive, not inclusive ? Especially when it comes to Limousine Digest-which is now the dominant industry trade journal-leading large in advertisers, circulation, show and editorial.( author's note: I am one of the founders of Limousine Digest ) Having said that, please understand that I read- gladly- anything industry related and learn from a variety of sources.For myself, I respect the TLPA and the UMA a great deal more than our limo association. The corruption and self-serving that has gone on attracted a response-J.H.J.. So if the puppet masters still want to lie about Pittsburgh Limousine and various and sundry other issues- my heart doesn't bleed for them when they get called on the carpet. They have attracted to themselves what they deserve.

Dean Schuler<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Matt Harrison
AAA Guaranteed On-Time Limousine, Clinton NJ

September 28th, 2002, 01:50 PM

Matt, There are a number of NLA DIRECTORS that I have the utmost respect for. It is the clowns that make it a circus sometimes.

Dean Schuler

September 28th, 2002, 01:59 PM

There are some I've known for years, even compared P&L information with. That is why it is so hard for me to stand by and watch the NLA or the Board being attacked as a whole.

I agree it is the clowns and that there are some.

How about some names?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Dean Schuler:
Matt, There are a number of NLA DIRECTORS that I have the utmost respect for. It is the clowns that make it a circus sometimes.

Dean Schuler<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Matt Harrison
AAA Guaranteed On-Time Limousine, Clinton NJ

September 28th, 2002, 07:22 PM

Speak your mind freely Matt-I always do.The answer you seek is contained in these posts.

Dean Schuler

September 29th, 2002, 11:25 AM

To succeed in any endeavor, INCLUSIVE is your Mission Statement. Exclusive means you have chosen the path that leads to the Out House. The one with the crescent moon on the door....

Dean Schuler

[This message was edited by Dean Schuler on September 29, 2002 at 06:47 PM.]

September 30th, 2002, 09:10 AM

do you think we should lobby to have Digest and LCT trade off the management contract? Just a thought, that way either/or wouldn't be able to control it for long. Hmmm, but there's still Lincoln & Caddillac, hmmm.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Dean Schuler:
A prime example of the idiots at LCT/NLA is the state of Illinois. InfoUSA and LCT say 750 operators. The Commissioner in Chicago says 1500 operators down from 2000 the year before. The Limousine Industry Council has the DMV records of Illinois, as of 12-15-01, there were 10,ooo plus livery and funeral plates. The number of limousine services was over 2,000 in December 2001. So, as you can see-LCT doesn't have a clue to reality in our Industry. They never will-sidewalk soci's are that way!!

Dean Schuler<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Matt Harrison
AAA Guaranteed On-Time Limousine, Clinton NJ

September 30th, 2002, 09:32 AM

No Matt- the NLA should be independent like the TLPA.According to the Limousine Council Archives, we had 12-15 thousand operators at the height of the 1980's limo boom in 1989. The current LCT Top Fifty is full of errors-we proved it already with official numbers on past posts. Their total for the country is wrong also-it is just a sad political game that the lame play. Dean Schuler, Since 1976.

Dean Schuler

September 30th, 2002, 09:49 AM

September 30th, 2002, 09:50 AM

Like I said, just a thought.

Could you tell me a little more about the Limousine Council? You've mentioned it in the past but that's about all I know about it.

Thanks

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Dean Schuler:
No Matt- the NLA should be independent like the TLPA.According to the Limousine Council Archives, we had 12-15 thousand operators at the height of the 1980's limo boom in 1989. The current LCT Top Fifty is full of errors-we proved it already with official numbers on past posts. Their total for the country is wrong also-it is just a sad political game that the lame play. Dean Schuler, Since 1976.

Dean Schuler<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Matt Harrison
AAA Guaranteed On-Time Limousine, Clinton NJ

September 30th, 2002, 11:06 AM

The Council consists of operators in business since the 1950's. There are 22 of us-16 active. We are about research solely.

Dean Schuler

October 1st, 2002, 07:54 AM

Michael, Please delete my post of 3:12 P.M. 9-30-02. It is true, but inappropriate to this Forum with our new rules. The numbers quoted are correct, though. Thank you !!

Dean Schuler

October 4th, 2002, 05:02 AM

Having reviewed the 2001 financial statements of NLA, as well as the prior year (2000) and the stub documents available on the NLA web site, I think they warrant discussion. The issue is the extent to which such discussion should be open to the general public.

Here are my thoughts.

Since all NLA members are entitled to such information, there is no reason to restrict these financial statements to "some" NLA members. Also, persons in the industry (such as it is) have an interest in these statements, either as possible future members, former members, of simply persons whose business is affected by NLA. It is my feeling that there is no legitimate reason to exclude the financial information from non-members, except that I do feel that there needs to be a line drawn between the foregoing and consumers and users of limousine service who apparently visit the forum, and are free to do so.

The other side of the argument against general publication of this information is that NLA is a Section 501(c)(6) organization under the Internal Revenue Code and, as a tax-exempt organization, is required to make certain financial information available to any interested member of the general public upon request. It is not as though NLA is a private company - it gave up that status when it asked for and received tax-exempt status.

Now, the subject I'm putting forth for discussion is how far this information should be made available, and, if restricted at all, how should it be restricted on limos.com. Michael, your input is sought from a mechanical standpoint, as well as forum participants from a policy standpoint.

After we resolve this issue, we'll deal with what the financials show. Too bad no one from the NLA board or staff will be willing to participate in evaluating these numbers.

Let's hear from you all about this subject.

James H. Joseph
Pegasus Chauffeured Motor Cars
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
jhj@pegasus-pittsburgh.com

[This message was edited by JHJ on October 04, 2002 at 12:29 PM.]

October 5th, 2002, 02:46 AM

about reviewing the year 2000 NLA financials. The year 2000 remains a deep-dark secret and has never been made available to anyone. The year ending December 31, 1999 was posted on the NLA website in a fit of "openness" by the so-called "reform" directors who took office in February, 2001 (remember them?). The "reform" directors have kept hidden all financial information since for the better part of two years. When you see the 2001 financial statements, you'll know why. The year 2000 is equally as bad because you can derive what happened by using the year 1999 ending figures and the year 2001 figures and deduce what happened in between, but without the detail. The directors want year 2000, in particular, to never see the light of day.

Said another way, I've seen 1998, 1999, 2001 and the joke that was posted to the NLA web site as "interim" financial information in September. NO ONE has seen 2000 - nor will they.

Bottom line - NLA became insolvent in 2000 and has remained so, except for being propped up by unspecified contributions and draining its reserves accumulated when it was presumptively properly managed. It has no more reserves to drain going in to 2002.

Try this for a "vigorous and vital" NLA - at the end of 1998 NLA had funds invested in amount of $346,503. By the end of 1999 this had been reduced to $285,324. This was further reduced by about $100,000 in 2000, and by the end of 2001 the remaining $187,520 was spent. In addition, in 2001 it took $190,000 in "sponsorship" funds to make up the loss. Is anyone out there going to contribute that kind of money in 2002 to prop up NLA? Can they?

The losses are actually larger than shown on the financials because NLA shifted to the accrual basis of accounting from a cash basis which let's it overstate anticipated dues revenue and make the loss look smaller. In a year or so, this will catch up with NLA and a big hit to revenue will be recorded, if the lights are still on.

James H. Joseph
Pegasus Chauffeured Motor Cars
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
jhj@pegasus-pittsburgh.com

October 6th, 2002, 06:18 AM

J.H.J, Let me say a few words about Host Communications and the NLA . It is an excellent company. Jim Host ( former White Sox pitcher ) was direct and truthful with the NLA Board ( I was on the Board then ) from the beginning. He stated that with the National Tour Association the keys to turning them around were : 1. Their own magazine 2. Their own Show. He let us know straight up that unless the NLA BOARD gave him these two things, when the contract was up-Host Communications was gone. The famous discussion relative to the proposed Host Contract in Chicago was a classic.( Fall 1999 ) To start off-Alan "Hide the Truth" Melton had a special meeting room for the Executive Board-like they were the United States Chamber of Commerce!! Then Darryl"I'm not legal" Norman ( when we ran the North Carolina DMV Records at the Limousine Industry Council, we found that Darryl didn't have his vehicles properly registered) said " I can't believe you are opposing the will of the Executive Board" !! ( They wanted us to accept a huge outlay to Hosts without explanation ) Like the NLA is the Soviet Union or something. George Jacobs and John Sokol argued with Darryl" I know all Norman " and a compromise budget was inacted. Still, That budget was too much for the NLA-which only caters to the LCT crowd-which is a very small part of our industry of over 20,000+ operators. Witness Castell trying to sell certification at the 1998 Digest Show-two people in three days at his booth-no one had ever heard of him !! It gets better-McCormick and Melton who should have been tried with criminal charges for covering up the original livery coach case and some of the other sidewalk soci's-excuse me-Board members-made Linda Bishop the scapegoat ( they refused to give her assignments-then busted her for not doing the work !! ) and voted her out. In the meantime Sara and I had a very public disagreement when I told her that her numbers were bogus( they most certainly are ) and that she was relieved of duty. That was enough for me-I told them all off at Dinner for their lack of knowledge and quit the sinking ship the very next morning. I was sorry to let Bob Scott down-most Board members ( not all ) of that era had serious issues relative to the truth. I know some of the current Board Members-they are a step above. Unfortunately, the NLA is a tool of LCT, and thus does not and never will represent the industry effectively as they could if they were INCLUSIVE. It is an absolute disgrace that the greatest lobbyist( Barry !! ) we have ever had-and the most effective has to get his instructions from Tom "There's only 10,000 operators in 1989, and there are only 10,000 now" Mazza and Scott-whom I actually used to think highly of.I have been in business since 1976-I know my limousine history.

Dean Schuler

[This message was edited by Dean Schuler on October 06, 2002 at 01:26 PM.]

[This message was edited by Dean Schuler on October 06, 2002 at 01:27 PM.]

[This message was edited by Dean Schuler on October 06, 2002 at 01:30 PM.]

[This message was edited by Dean Schuler on October 06, 2002 at 01:31 PM.]

[This message was edited by Dean Schuler on October 06, 2002 at 01:33 PM.]

October 6th, 2002, 08:07 AM

with you, Dean. Host is not an "excellent" company. Under Bob Scott they wouldn't answer the phone or return calls to members who left voice mail messages. They wouldn't answer e-mail. In short, they preferred not to communicate with members at all. In addition, at every occasion Host found a way to suck money out of NLA, just like everyone else. Look at the goofy demand they made in February 2001 to "manage" the defunct certification program for $3,000 per month. The financial results of their management are shown in the 2001 financials. A "good" company would walk away from NLA rather than suck blood like a parasite. Which brings us to why Bobit was willing to get involved over Ty Bobit's good judgment - ANSWER? Easy, the Las Vegas Show is a cash cow to Bobit and they will do anything to keep control of that show, even if it means gulping hard and swallowing ethics. Outside that purpose, NLA is a fig leaf.

James H. Joseph
Pegasus Chauffeured Motor Cars
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
jhj@pegasus-pittsburgh.com

October 6th, 2002, 09:56 AM

that Bobit didn't bill the NLA a dime for the show. I would say they are entitled to a profit.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by JHJ:
with you, Dean. Host is not an "excellent" company. Under Bob Scott they wouldn't answer the phone or return calls to members who left voice mail messages. They wouldn't answer e-mail. In short, they preferred not to communicate with members at all. In addition, at every occasion Host found a way to suck money out of NLA, just like everyone else. Look at the goofy demand they made in February 2001 to "manage" the defunct certification program for $3,000 per month. The financial results of their management are shown in the 2001 financials. A "good" company would walk away from NLA rather than suck blood like a parasite. Which brings us to why Bobit was willing to get involved over Ty Bobit's good judgment - ANSWER? Easy, the Las Vegas Show is a cash cow to Bobit and they will do anything to keep control of that show, even if it means gulping hard and swallowing ethics. Outside that purpose, NLA is a fig leaf.

James H. Joseph
_Pegasus Chauffeured Motor Cars_
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
jhj@pegasus-pittsburgh.com)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Matt Harrison
AAA Guaranteed On-Time Limousine, Clinton NJ

October 6th, 2002, 10:01 AM

You're going over the line set by Michael in these posts. Let's keep such compliments confined to e-mail, the same as Thomas "I" Mazza has been doing for a long time now. All that has been accomplished here with the "new" rule is that the same conduct is insidiously conducted in private.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Dean Schuler:
J.H.J., Host saw a rube coming and they took their money-after I was gone. Let's challenge Sara " The Idiot" Eastwood to a numbers game !!!

Dean Schuler<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally poster by Dean Schuler:
How true !! J.H.J., I am ready to challenge the sub-morons of LCT-let's debate circulation state by state !! LCT has been lying to the industry for a very longtime. Criminal charges should be coming relative to Sausage Boy and LCT for their lies !!

Dean Schuler <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

James H. Joseph
Pegasus Chauffeured Motor Cars
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
jhj@pegasus-pittsburgh.com

October 6th, 2002, 10:04 AM

there are no feelings, one way or the other, about the extent to which NLA financials should be public information. We'll keep the response time open, say, until midnight on Tuesday, October 8. Anyone who hasn't spoken up by then loses bitching rights. After that the discussion will open.

James H. Joseph
Pegasus Chauffeured Motor Cars
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
jhj@pegasus-pittsburgh.com

October 6th, 2002, 10:09 AM

people who care, as of today, favor scrapping NLA, the open issue being only that of time (now, one year, two years - keeping in mind that the initial poll is already growing old so that early responders time can be truncated). For example, it has already been nine months since the poll was posted, so early responders who said one year and two years are now close to "now" and "one more year." How much longer does anyone want to wait???????

James H. Joseph
Pegasus Chauffeured Motor Cars
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
jhj@pegasus-pittsburgh.com

October 6th, 2002, 10:10 AM

I just walked into the office after two days of home renovation work and I have a deadline. Thanks for keeping things moving along Jim.

The NLA envolope is on my desk, unopened. When I have had time to review it, I will return. Consider these comments a retainer for my bitching, or rebuttal rights!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by JHJ:
there are no feelings, one way or the other, about the extent to which NLA financials should be public information. We'll keep the response time open, say, until midnight on Tuesday, October 8. Anyone who hasn't spoken up by then loses bitching rights. After that the discussion will open.

James H. Joseph
_Pegasus Chauffeured Motor Cars_
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
jhj@pegasus-pittsburgh.com)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Matt Harrison
AAA Guaranteed On-Time Limousine, Clinton NJ

October 6th, 2002, 01:05 PM

J.H.J, Host Communications believed the word according to LCT. Imagine their surprise when they found their teacher to be a decade out of date!! O h well-an opinion without research always leads to a delusional conclusion !! I imagine they thought the money was endless too-after all: the NLA ( they thought ) represented the industry.At least HOST talked straight- a rare sight these days..............

Dean Schuler

October 6th, 2002, 08:16 PM

where did this come from? Must've sniffed too many paint fumes while renovating, Matt. Did anyone say Bobit didn't have a right to a profit on a limousine show?

In fact, NLA spends a fair amount of money on the LCT Show (substantially over $100,000, including paying for the board and staff and Host to attend the show), and NLA receives a payment from LCT (the formula is unknown).

The point being made is that the viability of most small trade associations is a function of their running a trade show and publishing an industry magazine. Dean is correct that Host pointed that out to the NLA and also tried to take the show away from LCT (but not entirely to the benefit of NLA) and start an industry technology magazine (remember getting one issue in the mail?). Both efforts were stillborn.

Bobit's concern is that if it doesn't control NLA, any other management company will go that direction and there will either be a third national limousine show, or one that replaces LCT. Thus, the inherent conflict of interests in Bobit controlling NLA.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by AAA/GOT:
that Bobit didn't bill the NLA a dime for the show. I would say they are entitled to a profit.

Matt Harrison
AAA Guaranteed On-Time Limousine, Clinton NJ
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

James H. Joseph
Pegasus Chauffeured Motor Cars
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
jhj@pegasus-pittsburgh.com

October 6th, 2002, 08:28 PM

and that is that the position Matt takes on whether the NLA financials should be totally public is based on what the financials say. Otherwise, he needn't postpone his comments until he sees the financials. Publication is a separate issue from content. The financials are awful, so after he reads them (and consults with Sara and Thomas "I" Mazza) expect Matt to try to contain that information as has the NLA board by simply ignoring the by-laws.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by AAA/GOT:
I just walked into the office after two days of home renovation work and I have a deadline. Thanks for keeping things moving along Jim.

The NLA envolope is on my desk, unopened. When I have had time to review it, I will return. Consider these comments a retainer for my bitching, or rebuttal rights!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by JHJ:
there are no feelings, one way or the other, about the extent to which NLA financials should be public information. We'll keep the response time open, say, until midnight on Tuesday, October 8. Anyone who hasn't spoken up by then loses bitching rights. After that the discussion will open.

James H. Joseph
_Pegasus Chauffeured Motor Cars_
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
jhj@pegasus-pittsburgh.com)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Matt Harrison
AAA Guaranteed On-Time Limousine, Clinton NJ
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

James H. Joseph
Pegasus Chauffeured Motor Cars
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
jhj@pegasus-pittsburgh.com

October 6th, 2002, 08:32 PM

a fair deadline it is (five days from first post), if one has a position and doesn't need time to consult with others as to what to say.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by AAA/GOT:
I just walked into the office after two days of home renovation work and I have a deadline. Thanks for keeping things moving along Jim.

Matt Harrison
AAA Guaranteed On-Time Limousine, Clinton NJ
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

James H. Joseph
Pegasus Chauffeured Motor Cars
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
jhj@pegasus-pittsburgh.com

October 6th, 2002, 08:38 PM

who told anyone who could read what he intended to do before he did it. Let's knock off the apologetics for Host Communications - they did an awful job that is indefensible, Dean, and they couldn't count any better than LCT or Thomas "I" Mazza.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Dean Schuler:
J.H.J, Host Communications believed the word according to LCT. Imagine their surprise when they found their teacher to be a decade out of date!! O h well-an opinion without research always leads to a delusional conclusion !! I imagine they thought the money was endless too-after all: the NLA ( they thought ) represented the industry. At least HOST talked straight - a rare sight these days..............

Dean Schuler<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

James H. Joseph
Pegasus Chauffeured Motor Cars
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
jhj@pegasus-pittsburgh.com

October 7th, 2002, 10:22 AM

deleted 4 posts from this thread and the number continues to grow. People, again I will clarify, if your post contains inflammatory language (and I will be the judge and jury on what I feel is "inflammatory") I will delete it.

Again, don't give us a good post and then spoil it with a "dig" or and "idiot" comment.

It won't last.

Thanks
Michael

http://www.limousinesonline.com/proudmember.gif

October 7th, 2002, 01:02 PM

Sorry Michael-sometimes the malfeasance in our industry just drives me @@##$%%$$ crazy. I will work on improving... Thank you for your patience.

Dean Schuler

October 7th, 2002, 01:12 PM

J.H.J., Hosts was forthright about what they wanted. I appreciate the rare flower of honesty in the business world.

Dean Schuler

October 7th, 2002, 01:20 PM

J.H.J., Understood-sir !!! Yes-the private e-mail game !! Are you willing to publish Thomas "I." Mazza's private e-mails ?? It will be interesting for the industry to see how "great minds" work. Did I just see a used White car go by.............????????????????

Dean Schuler

October 8th, 2002, 12:03 PM

Let's get HR 2546 passed now and actually make folks wake up and realize the limousine industry is a force now.

Dean Schuler

October 8th, 2002, 02:29 PM

J.H.J., It is time for the truth!! Go to Google and punch up Bob's Big Boy. That is: as you say-Thomas "I." Mazza. A better example of the "Peter Principle" you will never find. P.S. Michael-my comments were true-the ones that you edited-it is O.K.- we need now to adhere to a higher level at limos.com. Selah !! As Hunter S. Thompson would say!!!!!!!!!!!

Dean Schuler

October 9th, 2002, 12:06 PM

In the meantime we still need all the heat the industry can bring on HR2546.

Dean Schuler

January 10th, 2003, 03:58 AM

Just wanted to revive this thread for new forum members.

James H. Joseph
Pegasus Chauffeured Motor Cars
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
jhj@pegasus-pittsburgh.com

January 10th, 2003, 06:11 AM

http://limos.com/graemlins/banghead.gif

Matt Harrison
AAA Guaranteed On-Time Limousine, Clinton NJ

January 10th, 2003, 06:15 AM

How will I vote, scrap the NLA or scrap the NLA Hmmm.

This thread is a ploy se we can talk about how every person who voted did so vote in favor of scrapping the NLA.

Come on Jim, you can do better. Why don't you start an unbiased poll so Dean can have some 'real numbers'?

At least I finally have an icon to describe how the above poll makes me feel, http://limos.com/graemlins/puke.gif http://limos.com/graemlins/nono.gif

Matt Harrison
AAA Guaranteed On-Time Limousine, Clinton NJ

January 10th, 2003, 07:30 AM

Matt, Michele Rossi and I did a poster of all the NLA achievements by year a few years ago. The poster is part of history but perhaps you could contact Michele and get the list of achivemnets from her. A list of the NLA's involvement in charities should be posted too. Then you need to move this conversation back to Limousine Service's original post. Enjoy reading the numbers in the major press this spring.

Dean Schuler

January 10th, 2003, 09:57 AM

Jim?Wade, etc

If the NLA is so down and broke, why is it that this year we have 22 people running for Board Seats. Also your poll isn't worth the time to vote on since there is no way to do it scientifcly.

22 people must see something worthwhile in this association.

John Sinibaldi
NLA Board Member
http://limos.com/graemlins/hurray.gif

January 10th, 2003, 10:40 AM

http://limos.com/graemlins/puke.gif

22 people see the same thing that everyone else has seen - how to advance their own business interests through the NLA. How to become operator of the year. How to kiss Sara and Ty Bobit's asses. How to suck up to Scott Solombrino and the people that NLA and LCT have the ignoramuses in the industry believing are "leaders" and so they can name drop and pinch themselves every morning to see if they are REALLY an NLA director. Remember, in a world where these 22 people live, they don't know what real business is like - they have to go to classes taught by the Thomas "I" Mazzas of the world to learn how to train a chauffeur. Wow! Aren't these people the standard by which we should measure the value of NLA.

Let's measure the value of NLA by objective standards, not by what 22 people who are looking to improve their business think - that's just more of the same and how NLA got to where it is today. Just more people lining up at the trough. I thought you were smarter than to try that ridiculous argument on this forum, of all places.

How are you doing at answering my questions, John?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by fivestaroregon:
Jim?Wade, etc

If the NLA is so down and broke, why is it that this year we have 22 people running for Board Seats. Also your poll isn't worth the time to vote on since there is no way to do it scientifcly.

22 people must see something worthwhile in this association.

John Sinibaldi
NLA Board Member
http://limos.com/graemlins/hurray.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

James H. Joseph
Pegasus Chauffeured Motor Cars
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
jhj@pegasus-pittsburgh.com

[This message was edited by JHJ on January 10, 2003 at 05:57 PM.]

January 10th, 2003, 10:43 AM

these people don't even know what the financial conditgion of NLA is because, first, the association violates its own by-laws and gives the members no financial information excedpt distortions like that ridiculous July piece of crap that even you must have been embarassed about; and, second, probably none of the 22 would know how to read a financial statement if you gave it to them, let alone analyze it and made decisions.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by fivestaroregon:
Jim?Wade, etc

If the NLA is so down and broke, why is it that this year we have 22 people running for Board Seats. Also your poll isn't worth the time to vote on since there is no way to do it scientifcly.

22 people must see something worthwhile in this association.

John Sinibaldi
NLA Board Member
http://limos.com/graemlins/hurray.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

James H. Joseph
Pegasus Chauffeured Motor Cars
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
jhj@pegasus-pittsburgh.com

January 10th, 2003, 11:06 AM

The posting in July is not crap. It's a general statement. But since it not an audited statement we were advised by the CPA not to post the entire statement.

John Sinibaldi
NLA Board Member

January 10th, 2003, 11:09 AM

Whether its one or on hundred people running makes no difference to you. Face it, no matter what I say or the NLA does, its never going to satisfy you.

John Sinibaldi
Nla Board Member
http://limos.com/graemlins/smash.gif

January 10th, 2003, 12:04 PM

it's not even a financial statement. It is a distorted scrap of information.

]Originally posted by fivestaroregon:
The posting in July is not crap. It's a general statement. But since it not an audited statement we were advised by the CPA not to post the entire statement.

John Sinibaldi
NLA Board Member[/QUOTE]

James H. Joseph
Pegasus Chauffeured Motor Cars
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
jhj@pegasus-pittsburgh.com

January 10th, 2003, 12:08 PM

satisfying me is not the issue. What is the issue is the irrational, illogical and irrelevant apologetics that NLA defenders try to foist on us. A cogent, logical and rational position, supported by verifiable facts, is all that is needed to satisfy anybody. Try it sometime.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by fivestaroregon:
Whether its one or on hundred people running makes no difference to you. Face it, no matter what I say or the NLA does, its never going to satisfy you.

John Sinibaldi
Nla Board Member
http://limos.com/graemlins/smash.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

James H. Joseph
Pegasus Chauffeured Motor Cars
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
jhj@pegasus-pittsburgh.com

January 10th, 2003, 03:35 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by JHJ:
satisfying me is not the issue. What is the issue is the irrational, illogical and irrelevant apologetics that NLA defenders try to foist on us. A cogent, logical and rational position, supported by verifiable facts, is all that is needed to satisfy anybody. Try it sometime.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by fivestaroregon:
Whether its one or on hundred people running makes no difference to you. Face it, no matter what I say or the NLA does, its never going to satisfy you.

John Sinibaldi
Nla Board Member
http://limos.com/graemlins/smash.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

James H. Joseph
_Pegasus Chauffeured Motor Cars_
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
jhj@pegasus-pittsburgh.com)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Jim

Have you requested and read the audit of 2001? It is avaiable to any member in good standing.

When the 2002 is produced, you can request your copy. I am not sure if your statement on what is being foisted on the members is truly accurate. It seems to me that you are the one who wants to see everything in a negative light. Don't pity me, I am just trying to answer your questions and I am not trying to fool you or anyone else.

When it comes to the NLA you just don't like the association. However I don't take it personal, it just business.

http://limos.com/graemlins/boxing_smiley.gif

February 3rd, 2003, 11:48 PM

Or has there been a staff reduction at NLA. Current web site lists Thomas "I" Mazza and an Associate Executive Director whose name is different than the last time I looked. I seem to remember that only a few months ago there were several staffers listed. Am I right?

Maybe NLA is recognizing that since it doesn't do anything, it needs little staff.

http://limos.com/graemlins/smilielol.gif

James H. Joseph
Pegasus Chauffeured Motor Cars
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
jhj@pegasus-pittsburgh.com

[This message was edited by JHJ on February 04, 2003 at 06:57 AM.]

February 16th, 2003, 10:14 AM

has brought the standstill at NLA to a standstill. http://limos.com/graemlins/sleep.gif

James H. Joseph
Pegasus Chauffeured Motor Cars
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
jhj@pegasus-pittsburgh.com

JHJ

May 7th, 2003, 06:56 AM

When last heard from, the erstwhile NLA Treasurer announced that the annual audit would be complete by February 28 and that 2002 financials would be available by the end of March or early April. Anyone seen hide nor hair of the financials? The more things change the more they stay the same.

James H. Joseph
Pegasus Chauffeured Motor Cars
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
jhj@pegasus-pittsburgh.com

Dean Schuler

May 9th, 2003, 01:33 PM

JHJ that is an interesting question. As we have stated before the NLA needs to strive for inclusiveness, not exclusiveness. I was told that they are doing that today. I wait to see if the primary, accurate Industry Trade Journal-founded and run by limousine people for limousine people-Limousine Digest Magazine will be included. To date, the tent apparently isn't big enough at the NLA-at least this is the perception of the veterans of the Limousine Industry Council and many others. Inaccurate Top 50 numbers and inaccurate circulation numbers by their proxy magazine do not help their case- or ours in D.C. I will say that since the infamous roach coach software case of 1997 things have vastly improved at our national limousine association- gifts and dinners no longer affect their judgement and the mostly extremely stupid people that were there no longer serve. You have, I believe, mostly GOOD DEDICATED OPERATORS on the NLA Board now. In the hard times that we are in presently, you would think that the tent would include all of us. I listened intently to an NLA MAN today- a veteran man. I await the evidence that the NLA is truly the agent of the entire industry-not just lct. In the times that we face, we cannot afford to be exclusive. We face the hardest times that I and 30-50 year veterans have ever seen. We have issues to deal with like the moron gas guzzler tax insurance rip-offs, etc. WE AS AN INDUSTRY HAVE WORK TO DO !!!!!! Let the NLA show that they are INCLUSIVE and let us all move forward. If not, please know that the agents of exclusiveness will surely face their DOOM, and the Industry will move on. We have options now. Dean Schuler, Since 1976

Dean Schuler

AAA/GOT

May 10th, 2003, 12:28 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Dean Schuler:
JHJ that is an interesting question. As we have stated before the NLA needs to strive for inclusiveness, not exclusiveness. I was told that they are doing that today. I wait to see if the primary, accurate Industry Trade Journal-founded and run by limousine people for limousine people-Limousine Digest Magazine will be included. To date, the tent apparently isn't big enough at the NLA-at least this is the perception of the veterans of the Limousine Industry Council and many others. Inaccurate Top 50 numbers and inaccurate circulation numbers by their proxy magazine do not help their case- or ours in D.C. I will say that since the infamous roach coach software case of 1997 things have vastly improved at our national limousine association- gifts and dinners no longer affect their judgement and the mostly extremely stupid people that were there no longer serve. You have, I believe, mostly GOOD DEDICATED OPERATORS on the NLA Board now. In the hard times that we are in presently, you would think that the tent would include all of us. I listened intently to an NLA MAN today- a veteran man. I await the evidence that the NLA is truly the agent of the entire industry-not just lct. In the times that we face, we cannot afford to be exclusive. We face the hardest times that I and 30-50 year veterans have ever seen. We have issues to deal with like the moron gas guzzler tax insurance rip-offs, etc. WE AS AN INDUSTRY HAVE WORK TO DO !!!!!! Let the NLA show that they are INCLUSIVE and let us all move forward. If not, please know that the agents of exclusiveness will surely face their DOOM, and the Industry will move on. We have options now. Dean Schuler, Since 1976

Dean Schuler<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>3

So Dean, what was your name before 1976? (Just kidding, sorry, the thought comes to mind every time I read "since 1976").

I will call Tom Monday and check on the financials as I'm pretty sure nobody has yet. I would bet you a buck I'll have them by the end of the week, it's amazing what happens when someone picks up the phone and asks for what they want.

I agree with what you say about the present NLA Board, the bad apples are getting fewer. I also think what you say about the hard times is definately true. Hard times will bring the demise of the exclusive knuckle-heads and that's good, only problem being that we'll lose some good folks too. I must admit though, I'm getting really damn tired of hearing "don't cut prices, don't drop your price" and then getting undercut by 20 to 50 bucks a ride by the same people. As much as I've disagreed with Mr. Jim J over the last couple of years, he was correct about that one. But like I said, they'll cut themselves out of business pretty soon.

Matt Harrison
AAA Guaranteed On-Time Limousine, Clinton NJ

JHJ

May 10th, 2003, 02:32 AM

With regard the "amazing" things that happen when you call someone, how long do you think you'd stay in business if every customer had to call your office 15 minutes after a car was supposed to be there and wasn't? Let's also remember that at the first board meeting after Solombrino was elected it was determined that current financial statements would be posted on the NLA web site. I guess we're back to asking for them again. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

With respect to weeding out the bad apples, let's remember that the directors are not involved in a business on a day-to-day basis, that's why there is paid staff. This is the importance of the staff - to provide continuity and attend to the business properly and fill in gaps where directors are either uninterested or unable to perform. To have an executive director who has zero business experience and is even less interested in doing anything other than glad-handing and teaching one-easy-lesson on how to train a chauffeur for the umpteenth time, is devastating to the association. But eventually I'll be able to say "I told you so."

On the lighter side, Deano's sign off reminds me of the entertainment reporter who was doing an article on Cary Grant and during the interview forgot to get his age. He sent a telegram to Grant that said "How old Cary Grant?" Grant replied, "Old Cary Grant fine, how you?" How old Deano????

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by AAA/GOT:

So Dean, what was your name before 1976? (Just kidding, sorry, the thought comes to mind every time I read "since 1976").

I will call Tom Monday and check on the financials as I'm pretty sure nobody has yet. I would bet you a buck I'll have them by the end of the week, it's amazing what happens when someone picks up the phone and asks for what they want.

I agree with what you say about the present NLA Board, the bad apples are getting fewer. I also think what you say about the hard times is definately true. Hard times will bring the demise of the exclusive knuckle-heads and that's good, only problem being that we'll lose some good folks too. I must admit though, I'm getting really damn tired of hearing "don't cut prices, don't drop your price" and then getting undercut by 20 to 50 bucks a ride by the same people. As much as I've disagreed with Mr. Jim J over the last couple of years, he was correct about that one. But like I said, they'll cut themselves out of business pretty soon.

Matt Harrison
AAA Guaranteed On-Time Limousine, Clinton NJ
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

James H. Joseph
Pegasus Chauffeured Motor Cars
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
jhj@pegasus-pittsburgh.com

Limo Scene

May 10th, 2003, 04:39 AM

Matt, nice to see you posting again. I don't come here as often anymore because it sometimes just appears to be full of rhetoric. But, James, I believe you now! The establishment is set and the financials have been discussed here forever with no progress. Knowing that limos.com forum is a place where many NLA members visit, Tommy should make a post which contains a link saying the financials are available by clicking the link. Matt, maybe you can ask Tom to just that. And for the record, Deano must be 27 years old if he's been Dean Schuler since 1976 http://limos.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

David Merrill

May 10th, 2003, 05:08 AM

Tommy made a believer out of me, that's why I resigned from the NLA.

David E. Merrill

Dean Schuler

May 11th, 2003, 10:43 AM

Iam 50 years young this September....

Dean Schuler

Wade Randolph

May 11th, 2003, 01:28 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Dean Schuler:
Iam 50 years young this September....

Dean Schuler<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

But you have only been Dean Schuler since 1976. Dean were you a Klingon before?

Wade Randolph

Limo Scene

May 11th, 2003, 03:30 PM

Hillarious Wade!!!

Dean Schuler

May 12th, 2003, 07:04 AM

But of course....

Dean Schuler

gnoila pres.

May 12th, 2003, 03:27 PM

What about NLA members who break one of the ten commandments? Rule ten states "shall NOT restrain or supress competition." When 10 is violated then eight, "shall, if charged with unethical practices, aid investigation and not obstruct process." Please comment on how violators can be dealt with.

JHJ

May 12th, 2003, 10:31 PM

Oh My God!!! A heretic in our midst! Someone who actually read the code of ethics!!! Silly person - they're not meant to be enforced. They are only eyewash for sanctimonious and self-righteous members to point to and pronounce themselves to be the "chosen" few limousine operators who, unlike the great unwashed of non-members, operate ethically.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by gnoila pres.:
What about NLA members who break one of the ten commandments? Rule ten states "shall NOT restrain or supress competition." When 10 is violated then eight, "shall, if charged with unethical practices, aid investigation and not obstruct process." Please comment on how violators can be dealt with.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

James H. Joseph
Pegasus Chauffeured Motor Cars
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
jhj@pegasus-pittsburgh.com

Dean Schuler

May 15th, 2003, 01:53 PM

Restaint of Trade violates certain aspects of Federal Law-I am certain JHJ can tell us the facts we need to know. If not, I know them- went against CASABLANCA in Federal Court in 1987 and beat the service lepers like a drum !!!!!!!!

Dean Schuler

AAA/GOT

May 16th, 2003, 04:29 AM

Financials are on the way to myself, J. Luff, Wade, Dean and even JHJ.

Anyone else who would like a copy may get them by faxing a wrtiien request to the NLA at 856-596-2145 Requests may also be made via e-mail to tommazza@aol.com.

Tom requested permission to post the numbers here but his request was denied by the board. Seems to make sense that the numbers are available to ANY member in good standing, but not to the general public.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by JHJ:
When last heard from, the erstwhile NLA Treasurer announced that the annual audit would be complete by February 28 and that 2002 financials would be available by the end of March or early April. Anyone seen hide nor hair of the financials? The more things change the more they stay the same.

James H. Joseph
_Pegasus Chauffeured Motor Cars_
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
jhj@pegasus-pittsburgh.com)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Matt Harrison
AAA Guaranteed On-Time Limousine, Clinton NJ

Dean Schuler

May 16th, 2003, 01:24 PM

Matt, Good job !! We must now put aside all petty quarrels and work for the advancement of the Industry. This is a far cry from the attitude that prevailed Industry Wide six years ago. I believe that the current NLA Directors know that they are working for the entire Chauffeured Transportation Trade and that they also know that the magazine wars mean nothing. If they do not know these things , then they will not survive as an association. The Industry will eliminate them and their management company. The Industry grew greatly in the 1990's and easily supports two magazines now. Operators that have survived often belong to the TLPA, UMA, and the NLA. My enduring contribution was to bring accurate numbers to the Industry. When I started on my massive six year circulation methodology project in 1997, the numbers hadn't been counted correctly since the Days of THE WIZARD-Maury Sutton, LCT publisher 1986-1989. Now, with the methodology completed for the USA, Mr. Jay Handy and Mr. Maury Sutton ( now with DIGEST ) handle the numbers and statistics. You can rest assured that whatever DIGEST publishes in their Industry Guide in July is pure gospel-accurate, my friends. Forget ever asking the sources that lct quotes-they simply haven't done the research and frankly don't have a clue. I want to speak up for LCT here-they thought they were using good sources-LCT and BOBIT are supreme publishing people and care about the industry. They simply didn't know-that we have grown up and don't accept anything for granted from any magazine or any association,etc. You have to go to specialized research organizations to obtain the truth in niche industries. WHY ARE NUMBERS SO IMPORTANT ? Because politically we can get one helluva alot more done if we know how many Industry members we have and the MEAN ( not median or mode ) percentage range of turnover each year. It is sometimes referred to as bringing structure and function to an INDUSTRY. Last year's LCT Top 50 was full of errors and an absolute disgrace to our trade. Sara's people let her and Mr. Bobit down badly. I expect this year's Top 75 to be accurate. If not, I will check all TOP 75 and publish my corrections on line and in Business Travel News.Those of us on the research entity-The Limousine industry Council have an attitude about sloppy work. It is the way it is when you have three decades or more years in the business and when we started when there were no limousine magazines. Let's move forward as a Professional Trade to solve our problems. We will most likely need federal action relative to the insurance companies. We are being hosed on this issue....

Dean Schuler

Limo Scene

May 17th, 2003, 03:47 AM

Deano,
I have been awaiting those elusive numbers for a long time and now, it appears we are mere weeks from the public display of accuracy. Now, I know that just as we questioned how LCT got their numbers, the Limousine Industry Council will be prepared for the same scrutiny. As this forum is the only place I've ever heard the name, no website exists for such group, how are major publications expected to react? Who comprises the council? Where is the council's office? How often do they meet? What was the method of research conducted to make the data so accurate? Just throwing these things out there because I know credible journalists are going to want this information before taking the data and publishing it for the world to see and accept as gospel truth.
Since I can't locate any information about it on the web, hoping you can answer the questions posed. Thank you for your effort on the council you have put forth for the betterment of our industry.

Dean Schuler

May 17th, 2003, 11:18 AM

Jim, We pulled our site our the web a few years ago because we are a private research organization. If you check the Limousine Digest Industry Guide under associations you will find us listed. Our methodology has been reviewed by Business Travel News. I am told that the WallStreet Journal will have the privelege of the same review process shortly.

Dean Schuler

Dean Schuler

May 17th, 2003, 11:29 AM

Jim, Circulation is simple science. It is a disgrace and a comment on our Industry that this project wasn't done earlier. Outside list companies don't make a ton of dough looking at our Industry like it has to be looked at-so they don't. It is not worth it to them. Since MTG purchased the methodology from the Limousine Industry Council, I suggest that you contact Jay Handy at 609-953-4900, ex 251 or THE WIZARD himself at csutton@ucla.edu. As far as the Council Members go-most don't attend the Shows-they have better things to do at this stage of their careers. Hey-don't be mad at me-I am just a researcher and the most junior member. The veterans have all the success they desire and different pursuits than the rest of us. They are surely tired of bogus numbers though......

Dean Schuler

JHJ

May 17th, 2003, 02:04 PM

I remember that site, but then it disappeared in 2000 sometime. I agree that the very senior members of the industry don't give NLA a second look. What does this say?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Dean Schuler:
Jim, We pulled our site our the web a few years ago because we are a private research organization. If you check the Limousine Digest Industry Guide under associations you will find us listed. Our methodology has been reviewed by Business Travel News. I am told that the WallStreet Journal will have the privelege of the same review process shortly.

Dean Schuler<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

James H. Joseph
Pegasus Chauffeured Motor Cars
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
jhj@pegasus-pittsburgh.com

JHJ

May 21st, 2003, 01:33 AM

Got the financials a day or so ago. I guess it's up to me to break the ice. My first observation is macroscopic. For 2002, total revenue was $645,264, of which $362,592 was ACCRUED dues (i.e., some of this may never be realized), $106,556 came from LCT for the limo show, and $150,000 was coughed up by "sponsors" to keep NLA afloat. There is about $25,000 in rag tag income. If there are 10,000 operators in this industry (according to LCT; Dean says far more), and assuming that the average revenue per operator is $50,000 (the lowest possible assumption based on each of the 10,000 having one car), then the gross revenue of the industry is $500,000,000. More likely, it is twice that, or $1 billion. Assuming the lowest possible figure, then dues revenue is less than .1% (one-tenth of 1%) of industry revenues. By my reckoning, with this level of industry penetration NLA doesn't have to close its doors to fail, it long ago failed and is merely irrelevant. Please tell me why anyone would want to be a director of such an insignificant organization except for bragging rights to those not in the know?

An aside - I got a call from an out-of-state operator last week for a referral and they told me they were using the NLA directory to find an operator and they called 20 listed companies and got disconnected phones. I wonder how many NLA members are REALLY left?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by AAA/GOT:
Financials are on the way to myself, J. Luff, Wade, Dean and even JHJ.

Anyone else who would like a copy may get them by faxing a wrtiien request to the NLA at 856-596-2145 Requests may also be made via e-mail to tommazza@aol.com.

Tom requested permission to post the numbers here but his request was denied by the board. Seems to make sense that the numbers are available to ANY member in good standing, but not to the general public.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by JHJ:
When last heard from, the erstwhile NLA Treasurer announced that the annual audit would be complete by February 28 and that 2002 financials would be available by the end of March or early April. Anyone seen hide nor hair of the financials? The more things change the more they stay the same.

James H. Joseph
_Pegasus Chauffeured Motor Cars_
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
jhj@pegasus-pittsburgh.com)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Matt Harrison
AAA Guaranteed On-Time Limousine, Clinton NJ<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

James H. Joseph
Pegasus Chauffeured Motor Cars
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
jhj@pegasus-pittsburgh.com

JHJ

May 21st, 2003, 01:45 AM

Now for a more microscopic look at the financials. Accompanying the financials was an accountant's letter that explained a restatement of the 2001 financials based on "reclassification" of dues revenue. Remember I said that the way NLA was accounting for dues income had to result in a write down before long. 'nuff said about that (I hate to be the type that said "I told you so," but . . . I told you so). Also, I have repeatedly pointed out that NLA should bill dues once annually so it knows how much money it is going to have and how many non-renewals are occurring, all at one time. The accountant's letter making the write-down of dues income is "estimated" because with the NLA's method of accruing dues on a member's anniversary date the association can never accurately get a handle on unearned income. Thus, all financials will be erroneous because of this large "estimated" component. If the association is really interested in accuracy, it will switch to a single, annual dues billing, like TLPA and most other associations. Is this hard to figure out? Duhhhhhh!

James H. Joseph
Pegasus Chauffeured Motor Cars
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
jhj@pegasus-pittsburgh.com

Dean Schuler

May 22nd, 2003, 12:05 PM

The Official Numbers will be published by Jay Handy and the WIZARD: Maury Sutton in the July Limousine Digest Industry Guide. Draw your opinion about the NLA's penetration of the Chauffeured Transportation Trade from those figures. Please remember: WE need a National Trade Association independent of the magazines. It is unnatural for a magazine to be the managing entity of an association. Veterans call that situation : The Cartel. Regardless of the cheap & threadbarren politics that are a hallmark of our trade: We need Industry Unity to move forword and grow. Only morons and imbeciles believe the status quo.

Dean Schuler