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October 11th, 2002, 09:00 AM
Maybe this is just a rhetorical question but why is it that some markets have lots of large color (expensive) yellow page ads and when you go somewhere like New York the ads are all relatively small and in black & white? Is there some sort of gentelmens' agreement in NY not to waste money on Yellow page ads?

October 11th, 2002, 10:50 AM
I hate to guess what a full color, yellow-page ad would cost in NY. $40,000 per month? Maybe this is the answer to why.

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October 11th, 2002, 05:38 PM
I didnt see any color at all in NY...forgot about size..

October 12th, 2002, 06:43 AM
From what I've heard, most of the limousine companies in New York, meaning Manhattan, are corporate based. These types don't usually go in for general public service and advertise accordingly.

Also, when you have a book that gets used by several million people, advertising tends to be more expensive than say, here in Victoria where in a 100 square mile area you'd be lucky to count to 400,000.

(I know, 400,000 is pretty small for the capital city of a province that's bigger than California, but the polar bears keep weeding out the slower runners around here http://limos.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif )

October 15th, 2002, 02:29 AM
A little 3inch by 3inch ad is about 350.00 a month. Full page ad is around $1,400.00 a month. Basically, it's a mortgage payment to advertise.

October 15th, 2002, 09:11 AM
I think the yellow pages are a WASTE OF MONEY. When i started out I advertised heavily in them, just a little over $3,500.00 a month!!After working out the numbers that the yellow pages generated, they were the ones making the money. We CANCELLED all our subscriptions over a year ago and haven't seen ANY decrease in business or calls. One thing we have seen is an additional $3,500.00 ++ extra every month http://limos.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

ADVICE:
Stick with the Internet & Limos.com!!! http://limos.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

October 15th, 2002, 10:11 AM
Harpo

Are you concerned that when the last couple of Yellow pages lose their shelf life, your presents in the yellow pages will be zero? The book might stay around for a year or so and then people throw them out. After that they get new books. Then you might see a big drop off??

You might have enough name recognition now with 10+ years in the business, but if you were just starting would you still consider ignoring the yellow pages totally?

http://limos.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif $3500.00 seems a little high per month. Was that the largest ad they offered?

I dont think internet could support a new company starting out and maybe people should start slow with the yellow pages and see how they like it.

Sam

October 15th, 2002, 11:16 AM
Personally, I have no use for the yellow pages. My network contract requires that I keep a very,very small ad-and I wish I didn't have that. I go after contract work only and we do a ton of marketing to prospects of a certain demographic. Starting out is a different beast. It depends on your business plan.

Dean Schuler

October 16th, 2002, 04:11 AM
Hello All:

I dont post here much but I do read all of your posts carefully and generally feel that good advice, tips and suggestions come from these boards.

I would like to put my 2 cents in regarding yellow page advertising, I once relied heavily on yellow pages and at one time was spending $6,000 plus on yellow pages, we in the South Florida market have 3 counties to advertise in and pushes up the cost of advertising quite a bit.

A few years ago yellow pages was terrific, it got my phone lines ringing and got my reservationists booking, all was well, each year from, I would say 1999-2000, yellow pages simply stopped yielding results (or at least good results), we noticed a lot of tire kickers calling from the yellow pages and reservations from there decreased. We also cancelled our subscription but not before yellow pages took a major portion of our profits that were derived from other advertising sources - internet, coupons and so forth.

If you do decide to advertise in the yellow pages, beware of the sales agents, they will sell snow to an eskimo, they are very skilled and will make you believe that yellow pages will make you a fortune, but guess what, once you sign on that line you are stuck with the bill for 12 months. Think very carefully, I can only speak for my market and my business but the yellow pages is no longer the only source of information. When was the last time you picked up that heavy book to find a company to do business with, in my case many many months.

As a final point, when I told my yellow page sales rep that I was not renewing she told me that many companies are not renewing either and many who advertised previously are not paying their bills and yellow pages are having a tough time financially.

Just my 2 cents, hope it works

JJ

October 16th, 2002, 09:00 AM
about Yellow Page advertisements - he believes in them "big time." Our Yellow Books for 2003 were delivered yesterday and, surprise of surprises, AAA-Guaranteed On-Time Limousine Service is now advertising in the Pittsburgh, PA Yellow Book.

Interestingly, its Clinton, NJ base of operations is 260 miles away and the company holds no PUC authority to engage in business in Pennsylvania, yet he's spending money to advertise here. Wonder why? Maybe he's trying to fill the vacuum left by the defunct Pittsburgh Limousine.

The ad also refers to their display ad, but there isn't one.

James H. Joseph
Pegasus Chauffeured Motor Cars
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
jhj@pegasus-pittsburgh.com

October 16th, 2002, 09:35 AM
Interesting dialogue except for the last message which seemed to be more of an attack...

One thing I have found in researching my local market is that the companies with little to no yellow page advertising often aren't in the next year's book. I know it's tough to draw a direct correlation. Maybe they went under because they were under capitalized, couldn't afford to advertise enough, or a host of other reasons. But the local market guys do seem to be maintaining the size of their ads so that must be worth something.

October 16th, 2002, 09:57 AM
most of them have been advertising in the Yellow Pages for so long that they think that it is responsible for their sales, when, in fact, times have changed. Mostly, they're afraid to reduce or eliminate the Yellow Pages ad.

Sorry, but the last post was off topic and should have been in the thread where we were talking about deceptive advertising, such as using a photo of a car you don't have - advertising 250 miles away for business you can't legally do falls in that category.

If pointing out illegal advertising is an attack, then the politically-correct of you out there will simply have to tolerate it.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TxLimoGuy:
Interesting dialogue except for the last message which seemed to be more of an attack...

One thing I have found in researching my local market is that the companies with little to no yellow page advertising often aren't in the next year's book. I know it's tough to draw a direct correlation. Maybe they went under because they were under capitalized, couldn't afford to advertise enough, or a host of other reasons. But the local market guys do seem to be maintaining the size of their ads so that must be worth something.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

James H. Joseph
Pegasus Chauffeured Motor Cars
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
jhj@pegasus-pittsburgh.com

October 16th, 2002, 10:20 AM
my number is in the PittsburgH Yellow book, I did not request it and I don't pay a dime for it. Additionally, I don't do point to point PA work - ever.

It's a shame I don't know anybody in the PittsburgH area with service as good or better than mine. If I did, I might give out their number to those who call me from the erroneous Yellow Book add.

OF only two companies I've heard of out there one is out of business, and never would've had my referal and the other once received a trip from a close friend of mine, BLEW THE JOB OUT OF THE WATER, THEN GOT ON THE PHONE AND SCREAMED AT MY FRIEND, who had all the info correct.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JHJ:
about Yellow Page advertisements - he believes in them "big time." Our Yellow Books for 2003 were delivered yesterday and, surprise of surprises, AAA-Guaranteed On-Time Limousine Service is now advertising in the Pittsburgh, PA Yellow Book.

Interestingly, its Clinton, NJ base of operations is 260 miles away and the company holds no PUC authority to engage in business in Pennsylvania, yet he's spending money to advertise here. Wonder why? Maybe he's trying to fill the vacuum left by the defunct Pittsburgh Limousine.

The ad also refers to their display ad, but there isn't one.

James H. Joseph
_Pegasus Chauffeured Motor Cars_
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
jhj@pegasus-pittsburgh.com)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Matt Harrison
AAA Guaranteed On-Time Limousine, Clinton NJ

October 16th, 2002, 10:39 AM
Yellow pages in any area should be approached with extreem caution and tested with a small ad before going for 'the big monay'.

I operate in a highly transient area. We have thousands of 300K & up executive homes in the Hunterdon area and Yellow pages are very effective for us. We have the largest, and first add under the heading.

Another reason we get a good response is the name of our company. When a client uses their contract service, and that service blows it as usual, they go to the book. There we are, first - biggest and GUARANTEED ON-TIME. The clients first question is answered before they even dial the phone.

Other limousine company owners in my area have asked "How can you be guaranteed on-time? I'd go out of business if we did that" My response is always the same - I say "right, thank you."

Overall, the best thing you can do is poll your friendly competition about response. If Yellow pages work in your area, try it. Just don't bite off more than you are willing to chew in cost. Additionally, the fact that your add in your primary area works well doesn't mean that ads in closely surrounding areas will. I have tried every book that touches our service area. We used a small 'test' b&w add in each. Of the 8 we have tried over the years, there are 5 that give us a good enough response to warrent the expense.

Matt Harrison
AAA Guaranteed On-Time Limousine, Clinton NJ

October 16th, 2002, 11:32 AM
eom

October 17th, 2002, 06:45 AM
construe this post as in any way referring to our company, nor do I believe that Matt was in fact referring to our company. However, I got calls and e-mail on this post and the senders universally interpreted Matt's comment as applying to our company, so I am responding to that misconception. Suffice it to say, we do very little in the way of referrals inasmuch as we have a relationship with a substantial network, and we certainly didn't do any work for someone who is or was a friend of Matt (I don't mean that as an aspersion that if someone was a friend of Matt's we wouldn't do business with him or her, merely that with certainty we have never done a job for someone who is a friend of Matt's). In one of his weaker moments, I believe Matt would even consider so clarifying his comment.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AAA/GOT:
my number is in the PittsburgH Yellow book, I did not request it and I don't pay a dime for it. Additionally, I don't do point to point PA work - ever.

It's a shame I don't know anybody in the PittsburgH area with service as good or better than mine. If I did, I might give out their number to those who call me from the erroneous Yellow Book add.

OF only two companies I've heard of out there one is out of business, and never would've had my referal and the other once received a trip from a close friend of mine, BLEW THE JOB OUT OF THE WATER, THEN GOT ON THE PHONE AND SCREAMED AT MY FRIEND, who had all the info correct.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JHJ:
about Yellow Page advertisements - he believes in them "big time." Our Yellow Books for 2003 were delivered yesterday and, surprise of surprises, AAA-Guaranteed On-Time Limousine Service is now advertising in the Pittsburgh, PA Yellow Book.

Interestingly, its Clinton, NJ base of operations is 260 miles away and the company holds no PUC authority to engage in business in Pennsylvania, yet he's spending money to advertise here. Wonder why? Maybe he's trying to fill the vacuum left by the defunct Pittsburgh Limousine.

The ad also refers to their display ad, but there isn't one.

James H. Joseph
_Pegasus Chauffeured Motor Cars_
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
jhj@pegasus-pittsburgh.com)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Matt Harrison
AAA Guaranteed On-Time Limousine, Clinton NJ
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

James H. Joseph
Pegasus Chauffeured Motor Cars
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
jhj@pegasus-pittsburgh.com

October 17th, 2002, 07:31 AM
knows the story and knows full well who he is and what an ******* he is. I'm begining to think he has a copy of the '******* handbook' as he's becoming more creative lately.



<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JHJ:
construe this post as in any way referring to our company, nor do I believe that Matt was in fact referring to our company. However, I got calls and e-mail on this post and the senders universally interpreted Matt's comment as applying to our company, so I am responding to that misconception. Suffice it to say, we do very little in the way of referrals inasmuch as we have a relationship with a substantial network, and we certainly didn't do any work for someone who is or was a friend of Matt (I don't mean that as an aspersion that if someone was a friend of Matt's we wouldn't do business with him or her, merely that with certainty we have never done a job for someone who is a friend of Matt's). In one of his weaker moments, I believe Matt would even consider so clarifying his comment.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AAA/GOT:
my number is in the PittsburgH Yellow book, I did not request it and I don't pay a dime for it. Additionally, I don't do point to point PA work - ever.

It's a shame I don't know anybody in the PittsburgH area with service as good or better than mine. If I did, I might give out their number to those who call me from the erroneous Yellow Book add.

OF only two companies I've heard of out there one is out of business, and never would've had my referal and the other once received a trip from a close friend of mine, BLEW THE JOB OUT OF THE WATER, THEN GOT ON THE PHONE AND SCREAMED AT MY FRIEND, who had all the info correct.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JHJ:
about Yellow Page advertisements - he believes in them "big time." Our Yellow Books for 2003 were delivered yesterday and, surprise of surprises, AAA-Guaranteed On-Time Limousine Service is now advertising in the Pittsburgh, PA Yellow Book.

Interestingly, its Clinton, NJ base of operations is 260 miles away and the company holds no PUC authority to engage in business in Pennsylvania, yet he's spending money to advertise here. Wonder why? Maybe he's trying to fill the vacuum left by the defunct Pittsburgh Limousine.

The ad also refers to their display ad, but there isn't one.

James H. Joseph
_Pegasus Chauffeured Motor Cars_
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
jhj@pegasus-pittsburgh.com)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Matt Harrison
AAA Guaranteed On-Time Limousine, Clinton NJ
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

James H. Joseph
_Pegasus Chauffeured Motor Cars_
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
jhj@pegasus-pittsburgh.com)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Matt Harrison
AAA Guaranteed On-Time Limousine, Clinton NJ

[This message was edited by Viperion Corporation / Limos.com on October 17, 2002 at 02:51 PM.]

October 17th, 2002, 12:49 PM
I'm 33, you are...?

I find it chilling to find a group of adult businessmen, trying to help a new operator out on a fairly important and expensive question, caught in the middle of a flame war. http://limos.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

If you have issues with each other, give each other a call and settle them.

...or you can join my 13 year old nephew on his favourite multiplayer gaming forum, I'm sure he and his cohorts would be impressed at how much you dislike each other... http://limos.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

October 17th, 2002, 07:49 PM
NOW BOYS, STOP IT OR GO TO YOUR ROOM!!! (sorry, as a female operator… I HAD to do it :-))
Anyhow, to get back on track…. Our Yellow Pages have an "on-line" section right at the beginning of each listing header. I know we get a LOT of hits from this (my web tracker shows a good many "name direct typed-in" searches). With 60+ Companies listed, and only 5 listed in the "on-line" section, this puts us right up front of the header without going for a full page ad. If your area YP has it, I highly suggest this added feature.

Patty

October 19th, 2002, 03:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>YELLOW PAGES

Harpo

Are you concerned that when the last couple of Yellow pages lose their shelf life, your presents in the yellow pages will be zero? The book might stay around for a year or so and then people throw them out. After that they get new books. Then you might see a big drop off??

You might have enough name recognition now with 10+ years in the business, but if you were just starting would you still consider ignoring the yellow pages totally?

$3500.00 seems a little high per month. Was that the largest ad they offered?

I dont think internet could support a new company starting out and maybe people should start slow with the yellow pages and see how they like it.

Sam <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sam,
The rate of $3,500.00 that we were paying was for a 3" x 3" ad in six different markets. And in our final year our bill went up to a whopping $4,800.00 because we increased our ad's to "dollar bill" size. The reasoning behind this was that we had added new vehicles and felt that since that was our "main" source of marketing we should invest more into it. That same year we began asking ALL of our callers how the got our number, which I know we should have done from day one, and we were surprised at the results at the end of the year, which were as follows:

Internet: 40% (website, search engines and Limos.com)
Refferals: 30%
Shows & Magazines: 20%
Yellow Pages: 10%

So as you can see that after seeing these numbers you too would get rid of the yellow pages. We focused on revamping our website, religously answer every email EVERYDAY, and promote ourselves at shows, print media (magazines) and location helps ALOT.
As for your question regarding new operators, i think they should advertise with a small ad, just dont't sink your entire advertising budget into it. Spread it around into diffrent markets. The old saying is true
Don't put all your eggs in one basket. http://limos.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

October 19th, 2002, 06:11 PM
only suckers advertise in the yellow pages.
i hate to see those ads aaaaaaaaaaalimousine stupid.you do not need to be in this business.if you need some ideals send me a email i can make your phone ring.it unlimited business out here
if you are slow that is your own fault.people travel by limo's every hour of the day.

October 21st, 2002, 04:54 AM
an open discussion on ALL FORMS of advertising and their perceived effectiveness and actual effectiveness by those who have tried, or currently doing...

FOR EXAMPLE...

1) Internet
2) Yellow Pages
3) Direct Mailer Packages (Bulk AdPaks)
4) Radio-Show Give-Away in Lue (sp?) of radio time
5) Movie Theatre Advertising
6) Bathrooom Advertising
7) Free Celebrity Sponsorship in lue of tv time
8) Frequent traveler cards
9) Newspaper ads (anybody done this, like in a "wedding planning" special?"
10) Magazines (such as American Airlines Inflight magazine, or BRIDE)
11) Airport Billboard Advertising
12) Billboard Advertising (general)


Lets hear more ideas, even the looney advertising ideas. What has been tried, what has failed, what is a waste of time, and more....

http://www.limousinesonline.com/proudmember.gif

October 21st, 2002, 07:23 AM
Can you start a new fourm and call it Limo Business Management? Sub topics would be Advertising, Employees, Contracts, Policies & Procedures, Suppliers (QVMs), etc.

I think the advertising section alone would be good also.



<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Viperion Corporation / Limos.com:
an open discussion on ALL FORMS of advertising and their perceived effectiveness and actual effectiveness by those who have tried, or currently doing...

FOR EXAMPLE...

1) Internet
2) Yellow Pages
3) Direct Mailer Packages (Bulk AdPaks)
4) Radio-Show Give-Away in Lue (sp?) of radio time
5) Movie Theatre Advertising
6) Bathrooom Advertising
7) Free Celebrity Sponsorship in lue of tv time
8) Frequent traveler cards
9) Newspaper ads (anybody done this, like in a "wedding planning" special?"
10) Magazines (such as American Airlines Inflight magazine, or BRIDE)
11) Airport Billboard Advertising
12) Billboard Advertising (general)


Lets hear more ideas, even the looney advertising ideas. What has been tried, what has failed, what is a waste of time, and more....

http://www.limousinesonline.com/proudmember.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

October 21st, 2002, 07:44 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Specialtylimo:
NOW BOYS, STOP IT OR GO TO YOUR ROOM!!! (sorry, as a female operator… I HAD to do it :-))
Anyhow, to get back on track…. Our Yellow Pages have an "on-line" section right at the beginning of each listing header. I know we get a LOT of hits from this (my web tracker shows a good many "name direct typed-in" searches). With 60+ Companies listed, and only 5 listed in the "on-line" section, this puts us right up front of the header without going for a full page ad. If your area YP has it, I highly suggest this added feature.

Patty<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

it seems the uk yellow pages is a lot better for getting business than in the us! as for yell.com, i've been thinking about it as theres no other limo services in this area with a website nevermind useing yell.com, the problem is that its my 1st year and i've already spen a lot on adverts, but if it pays for its self then its well worth it i guess!

www.1stlincslimo.co.uk (http://www.1stlincslimo.co.uk)