Any update on CHP restriction for Proms in CA ?

[Poncho]

I was wondering if somebody has an update on the CHP regulations and vehicle code restrictions regarding transportation for students in 10+ passengers limos for Proms and School Events in California.

I know there was some talking about this last year but I never heard anything final about it.
Does anybody know what's the status of those regulations? Do we need to get a special permit or something?

I dont want to be in trouble when we take the kids to the proms this year.

Any info will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks so much

[Steve W.]

Hey Poncho,

I talked to Mr. Shanedling about it last year he seemed to be the one running point on it for the GCLA. May want to conatact him and either let us know what the scoop is also or ask him to come a write a post for the industry. I have not heard about any decision one way or the other.



President, Alan Shanedling
Fleetwood Limousine
5839 Green Valley Circle #102
Culver City, CA 90230
tel: (310) 645-6092
fax: (310) 645-1245
fleetwdlimo@yahoo.com

[San Diegan]

Just make sure you have a seat belt for every occupant, insurance, proper business license, no booze, and at least a class B license and you will be OK!

[Limo Scene]

A deputy commissioner of the CHP attended the Spring limo show/meeting of the GCLA two weeks ago in Orange. I was present as he addressed the group.

He was very specific that while a lobbyist for the GCLA IS indeed working with the CHP on a draft to become law, at the PRESENT time, no new law has been introduced to the legislature.

Here are the specifics:

No vehicle which seats MORE THAN 10 PASSENGERS can be used in the transportation of students to and from an official school sponsored function such as prom - UNLESS - the vehicle has been SPAB (School Pupil Activity Bus) certified by the CHP and the driver is a licensed SPAB school bus driver who has gone through a criminal background investigation and has been approved by the CHP.

He specifically addressed that limo companies around California were trying to assert that because they are rented by students or their parents that the limo companies are not providing service to a school and therefore exempt from that law.

He went on to state this is NOT TRUE and they will impound your vehicle. They have sent numerous memos to all association members stating this fact on CHP logo letterhead. I don't think he was kidding.

So, while San Diegan may think his advice is correct, listen to me. I am a 17 year veteran in the limo business, a writer for an industry trade magazine and highly active in both GCLA and NLA issues. Furthermore, during winter formals this past season, the CHP targeted the San Diego area and impounded 8 stretch SUV's.

This is not a law you want to skirt. Believe me, we repeat the story daily to would-be renters of our limo-bus and Excursion limousines on why they are "grounded" from school events.

San Diegan, give me a call (800) 831-7955, I will fax you the CHP memo.

Summary: Vehicle seats more than 10 passengers, vehicle and driver must be SPAB certified to drive any school sponsored event.

Any questions, call your local CHP Commercial Enforcement Officer and ask!

[David Merrill]

I would like to see that in Michigan. Because I am a State certified school Bus Driver with a S endorsment I guess I would sure be in demand. The problem is I have to attend a class to recertify as a school bus driver on the big Prom day in Northern Michigan, May 5th

[Steve W.]

Jim is this the same CHP memo you have?

CHP Information Bullitin dated September 19, 2006 (http://www.capriceshop.com/chp.pdf)

[Limo Scene]

Excellent Steve! It is indeed the same memo which was distributed to GCLA members just weeks ago!

[Steve W.]

Jim have you ever come across the requirements for what a vehicle has to have to meet the SPAB designation. My boss was talking with our CHP vehicle inspector and said our Hummers would not even meet that requirement because of no pop out side windows. WE have the roof hatch in them but I guess the side windows are a requirement of that code.

May have to start thinking of ways around this law. Guess we may have to drop the kids off a block away from the prom and show a diffrent address on your trip sheets than where the prom is held. Either that or start selling them off. or switch to all limo busses, they have the pop out side windows.

[Limo Scene]

Steve,

My Motor Carrier specialist said my 20 Pax Excursion could be SPAB certified with either the installation of a roof hatch OR pop-out side windows. It really wouldn't take much. Then you must have a SPAB certified operator. Again, not that big a deal. Hire a school bus driver.

Now, here's the kicker -

The CHP has made much noise about this issue. Yet, as I wrote the other day about San Diego and the enforcement efforts there, it is beginning to appear this was an industry myth.

I cannot find a single incident of enforcement. I began thinking the other day of doing a story in LCT about what kind of ounihsments were actually handed out after going through court and what exactly the judge thought about the case. Can't find a case.

I have a lead on some operators. Contacted some of them and they had some stories about violations and fines but not specific to what I am looking at.

One operator brazenly said, they will never enforce it. He brought up the fact that if they showed up Saturday night at a Los Angeles High School and 30 Hummers are there each holding 16 kids you end up stranding nearly 500 kids if they impound the cars.

I have checked with various CHP offices and none, except Temecula, have any recollections of anything involving limousines. Temecula cited some drivers for not having Class B licenses at a Wine Festival but even that company was given 20 minutes to produce a properly licensed driver over impound.

So, not that I advocate disregarding the law but no one is actually enforcing it. Furthermore, proms began last month in many parts of California and everyone I spoke to is still running their stretches and no one seems to care.

[Steve W.]

Good point Jim. I would be surprised if they even had the tow vehicels to tow more than a few limos from a prom site at any given time. I would guess citation writing would be the first step if they ever chose to enforce this. Maybe getting it beofre a judge would actually create some case law in our favor. Probably not.

Think it may be advantageous to change our trip sheet categories to something more generic so that if ever stoped we would have plausable deniability that is was a school function we were taking the kids to. So instead of run type: PROM change it to Minor Party. If they give us a home address and a hotel adddress how are we to know it's a school function? Is it our responsobility to investigate that?

Should also change any prom agreements wording to "Minor Charter agreement" get any reference to a school finction out of there. (prom, grad night, home comming etc.)

[Limo Scene]

I have had this same thought Steve. I mean, seriously I had this happen:

Sr. VP of a large oil company here has his assistant call. She says, Mr. VP needs a limo-bus at house, Saturday, May 12th from 6pm to 1:00am for an A/D.

Who am I to question what he is doing. It's an A/D as far as I know. Later, my neice tells me she will be riding in one of my vehicles going to prom that was rented by another parent. I ask who rented it? She says, Mr. VP did.

Great, now I know that I have a limo-bus, not SPAB, a chauffuer, not SPAB and I am holding $1300 of money which I can either CXL the run and refund and risk the chance of losing a corporate account forever over this fiasco - or - I can run it.

I am going to run it. The trip type on the ticket will continue to say Corporate A/D as the type because that is how it was set up.

What a bunch of b.s.

[gunny]

Have contracts written up as Intrastate Charter Bus transportation & screw the rental or limo terminology.

[BirmLimo - Michael Birmingham]

I have always avoided that type of language.

We have
Night out - in state / night out - out of state
Hourly Charter - in state / hourly charter - out of state
party runs are night out , corp / schools / non-party stuff is hourly charter.

the in state / out of state is needed since ohio is a sales tax state for all in state work.

[Limo Scene]

Well Michael, I learned something from you and Gunny today. Our insurance company asks us to report to them, by percentage what type of runs we do from a handy little list THEY provide. My insurance agent has told me that premiums are based on the type of work you do. Such as bachelor parties have a higher risk that corporate runs. There is a whole formula for it. Weddings are a higher risk than a corporate run but lower than a "night out". Night out is considered extremely high risk as it implies alcohol usage. Maybe the people are going to see a Broadway show.

Anyway, from now on, I am calling everything a corporate run. No more accurate reporting. They don't need to know what kind of run it is.

I have been screwing myself all these years by being honest!

Gunny, it is easy for you to use that Charter Bus thing because that is your primary business as opposed to most of us here who run primarily limousines and sedan service. But, I see your point.

[gunny]

Originally posted by Limo Scene:

Gunny, it is easy for you to use that Charter Bus thing because that is your primary business as opposed to most of us here who run primarily limousines and sedan service. But, I see your point.

Isn't a bus in California defined as 10pax or more?

In interstate under CFR 390.5 a bus even includes taxicabs & right underneath that definition is the definition for charter.

I keep preaching for the limo industry to start utilizing DOT terminology for a reason. There are no federal definitions for a limousine service and for good reason. Try to define it based on the variety of vehicles and services rendered. An Allstar or CAREY runs everthing from sedans to 50pax over the road motor coaches.

What is a limousine service? Good topic for a thread or an article in the rag Big Dawg.

[Wade Randolph]

Originally posted by Limo Scene:
Well Michael, I learned something from you and Gunny today. Our insurance company asks us to report to them, by percentage what type of runs we do from a handy little list THEY provide. My insurance agent has told me that premiums are based on the type of work you do. Such as bachelor parties have a higher risk that corporate runs. There is a whole formula for it. Weddings are a higher risk than a corporate run but lower than a "night out". Night out is considered extremely high risk as it implies alcohol usage. Maybe the people are going to see a Broadway show.

Anyway, from now on, I am calling everything a corporate run. No more accurate reporting. They don't need to know what kind of run it is.

I have been screwing myself all these years by being honest!

Gunny, it is easy for you to use that Charter Bus thing because that is your primary business as opposed to most of us here who run primarily limousines and sedan service. But, I see your point.

Luff let me tell you another secret about insurance companies. They are all asking for your gross revenues now also. They want to make sure we are all paying at least 10% of gross toward insurance. Refuse to tell them your gross or low-ball your gross and watch your premiums drop.

[Limo Scene]

Good info Wade. I did take note of that question about my gross income. I thought it was relevant to determining volume - not extracting 10% of thier share.

Gunny, as always - thanks for the suggestion.

[Wade Randolph]

Originally posted by Limo Scene:
Good info Wade. I did take note of that question about my gross income. I thought it was relevant to determining volume - not extracting 10% of thier share.

Gunny, as always - thanks for the suggestion.

Jim its no accident that my insurances rates rose every year when I was stupid enough to put my gross revenues. They insure my vehicles only they have no business knowing our gross.

[Dean Schuler]

They do seem to have more questions as the years roll on.
Originally posted by Wade Randolph:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Limo Scene:
Good info Wade. I did take note of that question about my gross income. I thought it was relevant to determining volume - not extracting 10% of thier share.

Gunny, as always - thanks for the suggestion.

Jim its no accident that my insurances rates rose every year when I was stupid enough to put my gross revenues. They insure my vehicles only they have no business knowing our gross. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>